oliphant
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1 edit | Yeah... We really need the internet managed like they did the oil for food program and their operations in the Congo.
No thanks.
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Nerdtalker
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| Re: Yeah... said by oliphant  :We really need the internet managed like they did the oil for food program and their operations in the Congo. Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN?
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN? It's only certain countries, primarily those who would like to hobble the US economy.
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Descent
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| Re: Yeah... We invented it...its ours. where do they get the authority? if they want a world one why dont they just make a new one? See how many people switch over..
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zoom314
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Yermo, CA
| said by AthlGrond :said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN? It's only certain countries, primarily those who would like to hobble the US economy. Yeah like the French government, Who thinks they are a super power.  The French have been at odds with US since the End of WWI and for their greedy stupidity They had to be rescued and for some they aren't too great full. Others there are great full that They were liberated of course. The French Government is an Ally in name only as they withdrew from the Military part of NATO back in the 50's or 60's, They are however part of the Political part though for all the good that does, But then It shows that the French can't be counted on in an emergency.
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n2jtx
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| said by Nerdtalker :Seriously, why is everyone so eager to pass the buck to an agency as incompetent and corrupt as the UN?
While I agree 100% that the UN has become a corrupt, useless organization, it should be noted that the ITU predates the U.N. by almost a century (see » www.itu.int/aboutitu/overview/history.html ). While it is part of the UN now, it was an independent entity and continues to do a pretty good job regulating radio as well as international calling. Granted we need another bureaucracy looking over the internet like we need a packet storm but seeing where things are headed with ICANN I can't help but wonder if a change might be good. It should also be noted that the Universal Postal Union is another one of those UN agencies that predates the UN (see » www.upu.int/about_us/en/glance.html - found in 1874). They too do a pretty good job and I have yet to hear any complaints about international mail. --
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by n2jtx :Granted we need another bureaucracy looking over the internet like we need a packet storm but seeing where things are headed with ICANN I can't help but wonder if a change might be good. My complaints about international mail can wait, will you explain what you see wrong with ICANN that the UN would be a fix for?
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kapil
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Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... ICANN is incompetent. | |
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :ICANN is incompetent. And the UN isn't?
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kapil
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Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... No. The UN does a fair amount of good. You are confusing the UN with the Security Council. The SC is just one of the UN bodies. The proposal is to let the ITU manage the Internet. The ITU is another UN body but it predates the UN and does a fantastic job of managing the telecom interconnections and standards between nations. Without the ITU you'd be limited to calling NANPA member countries with your telephone.
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... I won't stipulate that a big long standing bureaucracy is better without some convincing.
So, what aspect of managing the internet would the ITU do better than ICANN? And what would it do worse? (In your opinion.)
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kapil
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Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... If you knew the history of ICANN and the history of the ITU, you wouldn't ask me that question.
The management of ITU is infintely better than that of ICANN. I won't do your work for you...go do some googling and come back with why you think the ITU ISN'T a better choice and I will do my best to convince you otherwise.
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :If you knew the history of ICANN and the history of the ITU, you wouldn't ask me that question. The management of ITU is infintely better than that of ICANN. I won't do your work for you...go do some googling and come back with why you think the ITU ISN'T a better choice and I will do my best to convince you otherwise. Too bad, in the absence of a stated reason I'll have to assume you don't have real one.
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kapil
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| Re: Yeah... I do. But I am not going to give you a position and then defend the counter-position. Tell me why you think the ITU is a bad choice and we can debate. I am not going to do your research for you. ...or was your claim based on redneck "patriotism" and not logical reasoning?
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :I do. But I am not going to give you a position and then defend the counter-position. Tell me why you think the ITU is a bad choice and we can debate. I am not going to do your research for you. ...or was your claim based on redneck "patriotism" and not logical reasoning? You are the one wanting to change things, it's in your court to explain why.
The current situation requires little defense since the Internet does appear to be working. (Last I checked anyway.)
Which is more reasonable? The person who wants to change things without any stated reason, or the person who wants a continuation of a functioning Internet?
I know which one I'm in favor of, but feel free to convince me that I'm wrong. (Hint: I won't find yelling "You're wrong!" convincing.)
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kapil
The Kapil
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Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... Once again, spend some time researching ICANN. Join some of the mailing lists, volunteer on some of the committees. The only reason the Internet hasn't crumbled under ICANN is because of its distributed architecture and because the "geeks" still have a fair amount of say in how the underlying nuts and bolts of the internet work. No thanks to ICANN or the US Department of Commerce.
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AthlGrond
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Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... So what is going to change that will cause the crumbling?
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AthlGrond
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Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... The silence is all the reply anyone here needs. There isn't a single compelling reason to move from ICANN to the ITU/UN.
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kapil
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Chicago, IL
1 edit | Re: Yeah... Calling a redneck a redneck isn't racism. Besides "redneck" isn't a race. And please tell me how the "rural whites" have been wronged oh so gravely by racist attitudes that we must now be politically correct about addressing inbred fools who will have you believe that there is only one country on this planet and it can do no wrong. Tell me why "God Bless America"...why the hell not "God Bless Everyone"? | |
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N3OGH
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| Re: Yeah... "Redneck", as defined by Dictionary.com is:
"Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States."
Racism, as defined by dictionary.com is:
"The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others"
When you use the term redneck as you do, you are implying that people, who are part of the "white,rural laboring class" are somehow inferior to yourself because of their inclusion in that group. It fits the definition to a tee. You may not like it, but it sure sounds like you believe you are somehow better than the folks you call "rednecks", making you at least SOUND racist.
As far as white rural working class folks being oppressed, nowhere did I see in the definition of racism the word oppression. Someone can be a racist without oppressing any given race or group.
Someone doesn't have to be a member of a "minority" group to be the victim of racism. Conversely, just because someone is a member of a "minority" group, does not make them the automatic victim of racism.
As far as being politically correct, who the hell are you to determine who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect? You say "God bless everyone" in your post, while you essentially say everyone who fits within the definition of a "redneck" deserves to be cast aside, as though their opinions count for not.
You, sir, with all due respect, are one of the most bigoted sounding people I've ever encountered in any discussions here. I hope you can find a place in the world for us rural working class white folks. I never oppressed anyone, and am a second generation immigrant. I'm the first person in my family to ever graduate from college. But you judge me not by the content of my character, but by the fact that I'm White, rural and working class.
Tell me that's not racism..... | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
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Corona, CA | Re: Yeah... That would require him to be intellectually honest for once.
Not gonna happen.
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| macaholic
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Jackson Heights, NY | well I think better the UN than Verizon...aka the private interests that really run our country.
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Queasy
join:2004-01-20
Lawrenceville, GA | We should make a deal that if the UN is not involved in any graft, corruption, rape, and does not overlook human rights abuses for 20 years than we MAY consider talking with them about the possibility that one day they could get involved with ICAAN. | |
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oliphant
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| Re: Yeah... LOL, yeah..."Hot UN Peacekeeper action"...with the recent flood accusations of sexual attrocities perpetrated by UN Peacekeepers in the Congo they have tons of adult material.
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kapil
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Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... UN does not have its own military...soldiers are borrowed from member nations. There are good apples and bad ones in every group. We don't contribute to US peacekeeping missions...yet our soldiers manage to misbehave anyway. Or did you forget Abu Ghraib?
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :...yet our soldiers manage to misbehave anyway. Or did you forget Abu Ghraib? The primary difference is that we will put our troops on trial and punish the guilty ones.
Who is it that will protect people from rogue UN peace keepers? No one in the UN it would appear.
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kapil
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| Re: Yeah... Actually, in the recent incident, to which apparently Oliphant is referring to, the home nation of the offending soldiers DID recall the soldiders in question and court martial them.
Then there's the U.S.....which won't join the ICJ because we don't want our soldiers to be held to the standards that the rest of the world has agreed to.
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by kapil :Actually, in the recent incident, to which apparently Oliphant is referring to, the home nation of the offending soldiers DID recall the soldiders in question and court martial them. Then there's the U.S.....which won't join the ICJ because we don't want our soldiers to be held to the standards that the rest of the world has agreed to. LOL
We would be one of the few countries that would actually obey the ICJ if we were to agree to it. I'm sure that wouldn't bother you though. 
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kapil
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Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... Nope. Once again...we decided not to join ratify the ICJ. The rest of the world already abides by the rules.
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| | | | | | xrobertcmx
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clubs: | The ICJ actually seems like a good idea in many respects. We however do not like the idea that there is any higher authority and that we could be held accountable for our actions.
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by xrobertcmx :The ICJ actually seems like a good idea in many respects. We however do not like the idea that there is any higher authority and that we could be held accountable for our actions. I agree in principle that it does seem like a good idea. I also know that it would be used as a political tool against the US.
I'm also sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.
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kapil
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| Re: Yeah... If there is one nation that is guilty of using the U.N. to meet its own domestic political ends, it's the U.S. We think the UN is there to serve us...we don't treat it as an international forum where the world cimmunity gathers to share ideas, resolve disputes and make a better tomorrow.
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| | | | | | baylorguy
join:2004-09-30
San Antonio, TX
| said by AthlGrond :said by kapil :We would be one of the few countries that would actually obey the ICJ if we were to agree to it. I'm sure that wouldn't bother you though. Yeah, kind of like when we pulled out of the World Court after a decision against us in 1983 over Nicaragua. The only reason we haven't had a torrential amount of security council resolutions against us is because we have veto power. We are the warmongering country, when are Americans going to realize that. We want to create an international system of governance, and a community of nations but we act like it is the United States of Earth and we get to subject every other state to do our bidding. We are not always going to be the big kid on the block and we should treat other countries the way we want to be treated when we aren't so high on the totem poll. | |
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AthlGrond
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| Re: Yeah... said by Tsume :I think ICANN does a fine job the way it is, and there's no purpose for moving it to the ITU. There certainly hasn't been one put forth in this thread anyway. (Despite plenty of opportunity to provide even just one reason.)
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kapil
The Kapil
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Chicago, IL
| Re: Yeah... You need a reason, do you? How's this.
How about making a statement to the entire world that regardless of all the bad press we get because of the village idiot from Texas and his posse, we are a fair minded people. And we as a people value cooperation, global thinking, a multilateral and pluralistic approach to solving the world's problems and that we are capable of thinking about what is in the best interests of humanity not just Americans.
How about making a statement, however symbolic, that the one remaining superpower hasn't given up on those less fortunate than us...and that today we share with the rest of the world the awesome responsibility of managing a tool, a technology that has caused a paradigm shift in the way people talk to each other, the way we reach out and touch one another, the way we learn, gather information, get news about our greatest victories and our most tragic tragedies. And because we're so open minded about sharing our greatest gift to humanity - the internet - there is hope yet and perhaps that we, all of us together, can also overcome other petty problems of humanity like the AIDS crisis, poverty, hungry children, illiteracy and disease.
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AthlGrond
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Aurora, CO | Re: Yeah... I think I can safely stop waiting for a reason why ICANN would be better replaced by ITU/UN at this point, since it's clear you're unaware of any.
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kapil
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Chicago, IL
| So the rest of the world is out to get us? You're telling me that the standard estalished by the ICJ that is good enough for every other soldier in the world is not good enough for Chucky Graner? We don't want Abu-Ghraib style antics by our soldiers to warrant punishment...and that is why we didn't ratify the ICJ.
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Kompressor
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join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | "The international community wants to shift control of the Internet from U.S. based ICANN to the United Nations."
Who cares what the international community wants, and screw the United Nations.
What will the they want next, to shift control of the U.S. to the UN? | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | The Security Council is not the same as the ITU. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
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join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | And the troll of the week award goes to Kapil. | |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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Mullica Hill, NJ
| if the UN had control they would start wanting to control whats on the internet. also atm there are core DNS servers that are US located and if the UN took over the DNS core would probally end up being relocated and you cant just move the most important DNS without taking the net offline.
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kapil
The Kapil
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Chicago, IL | Re: Yeah... There is no "core" ...they are called the root servers...and they are already spread all over the world.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
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3 edits | With all the displeasure some anti-American Communist bedwetters seem to have, you would think they would simply STFU and move to France.
Meanwhile I love that they lost the elections not just the Presidency but even more seats in the House and Senate...something not done in decades. And I love that they've got their panties in a bunch about it so much that they'll resort to calling anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi or redneck. I love that FNC has higher ratings than all of their leftist propagandizing competitors put together and that Air America and NPR can't pull a ratings point. I love that the UN is irrelevant. I love that old Europe is irrelevant. It's great.
All these jokers turned a blind eye to the 100,000's murdered by Saddam, the pre-teen rape rooms and the like, but get in a twist over little more than fraternity pranks at a prison full of murders and rapists. These nations that continuously bitch about the United States are always the first in line for a handout or expect the United States to foot the bill.
Well the next time countries in Africa are ravaged by HIV/AIDS we should keep our $15 billion taypayer dollars and give them the finger. The next time Muslims are getting slaughtered in some dumpster republic like Kosovo while the UN sits on their hands I hope we think better and let Europe handle their own problems. When South Korea gets nervous because Clinton took the word of a Communist dicator who "promised" not to develop nukes while he gave them the means to do it...they should think twice about marching in the streets bitching about America which is the only thing between them and the horrors of Communism. When the anti-American gov'ts of S.E. Asia piss and moan about the U.S. military delivering aid to areas devistated by the Tsunami I say fine...why bother. Let them handle their own messes. Don't beg for a billion in handouts then bitch about how you're getting it. And as for Europe, perhaps France would have been better off under Nazi control (since their per capita production went up) or Western Europe under the thumb of Stalinist Russia. These these socialist kooks could have their dreams of free heathcare, anti-semitism and deathsquads. When Mexicans can chant anti-American rhetoric and "Osama, Osama" at a soccer game and nothing is said, we ought to give consideration to doing what Mexico does to illegals in their country...deporting the 10 million illegal aliens who are sucking billions from our economy, keeping wages of legal immigrants low, ruining our schools and closing our hospitals.
All of these anti-semetic anti-American gov'ts in the UN can all KMA. For the first time in a while the United States is finally doing what every other country has done for themselves...and that's looking out for their best interests. If they don't like that America does what is in their best interests...tough. I have a hard time taking anyone who sides with gov'ts who would overlook pre-teen rape rooms and mass executions of 100,000's of innocents simply for oil money. France, Germany and Russia took the side of the terrorist enemies of the United States and for what...a few billion in stolen oil money. And who made it possible for billions to be funnelled from starving Iraqi children and into the hands of Saddam and European cronies...the UN.
If the UN and Eurotrash gov't are pissed because we won't bend over for them and give some socialist hack court jurisdiction over our citizens...tough. If they're all pissed because we won't bend over and decimate our economy with they joke of Kyoto while other nations like those in Central America and even China get off scott free, F-them.
I'll start considering the opinions of Europeans and the socialist whiners supporting them when they for once in their lives consider the concerns of the United States.
So excuse me all to hell if I don't want some worthless inept international body taking control over what the United States spent taxpayer dollars to develop. If they don't like it...they can build their own.
Self-loathing anti-American tree hugging commie bedwetters need not reply as their worthless opinions will be ignored.
But remember, I voted for the ITU takeover before I voted against it. 
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vpoko
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join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Yeah... Geez, when it comes to defending Bush's actions on Iraq ("to liberate the people") you come off like a flaming liberal. | |
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