djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
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| reply to vpoko
Re: Quality vs. flexibility
Never underestimate the human's desire to collect things. Television shows on DVD made 2.28 billion dollars in 2004, despite the fact that most were freely available on TV networks. Lots of people have huge DVD collections even though they only watch movies once. I think on demand content will be a huge player in the coming years, but a true paradigm shift away from collectable media will likely take much longer than a century.
quote:
... because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality.
Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". To me both Sirius and XM sound like a badly encoded MP3. Even though I'm pretty sensitive to quality losses, even I would rather have a DRM-free CD that I can rip to high bitrate MP3 to put in my car MP3 player or portable, than a DVD-Audio disc that I can't do anything with. And I still listen to Sirius because having content available is more important than quality.
CD quality still has much more capacity than most people's speaker systems anyway. 5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. He eagerly showed off a Shania Twain DVD-A. The directional audio was fun, until someone got in the back seat. Back to the plain old collection! I wouldn't know how much of an improvement DVD-A actually makes on the audio, since the Acura factory speakers aren't exactly audiophile quality.
I wish I could get behind a movement for better quality audio, but I can't. A lot of the music being produced these days isn't even taking advantage of the CD format. Some of the best sounding CDs I have are remastered albms from the 80s. Having my entire library at my fingertips when I get in my car is far more exciting than an incremental increase in quality.
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\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by djrobx  :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by imrf :said by djrobx :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Except that with a car it's impossible to isolate yourself from outside noise (and if it was, it wouldn't be safe).
You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to yock
said by yock :I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio. Unless you live in a hall or something a living room or home theater room is the same, but ideally with much better equipment. Car makers use crap equipment for their audio systems, while they can give you the audio in a 5.1 format, it won't be as accurate as a home theater system is, which is part of the idea behind DVD-A and SACDs. I have listened to the Acura TLs DVD-A system and it's ok, but not that great. |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to vpoko
said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. |
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jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| reply to djrobx
Quote:
Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". To me both Sirius and XM sound like a badly encoded MP3.
Reply:
Have you ever listened to Sirius or XM without using those stupid FM modulators? If not, you can't judge the quality of service. These technologies are very hardware dependent. If you buy cheap crap you will get crap in return. I do agree that they aren't wuite CD quality, but I have yet to hear an MP3 off the internet that sounds as good. Heck, even the sirius internet streams sound better than most MP3's you find floating on the internet. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to imrf
said by imrf :said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. Real life is far from perfect. I have yet to see a perfectly designed spatial audio system where everyone in the audience can hear everything perfectly. Besides, that's what distance controls are for.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| reply to jazzy112
I agree with jazzy112 , the quality is rather good (much better than MOST MP3s). I would guess that at least 85% of XM (I have not tried Serius) is at least the quality of a high-bit rate MP3 (at least 200kb/s).
It is either that or listen to static-filled, commerical filled, land-based FM. I heard a few years ago that FM was to go digital, but that is apparently bust.
Comparing satelite radio with FM terestrial radio is like comparing a Porshe to a Saturn. The Porshe is ganna sound better. Period.
Satelite is as high-quality as radio is ganna get in this age, your ganna have to live with it. |
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Davros866
join:2001-07-23
Houston, TX
1 edit | reply to imrf
"Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! You are listening to the wrong layer of your DVD-A disk if you think it is. Dolby and DTS are compressed, lossy formats. DVD-A is an uncompressed, high bitrate, multichannel format. Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to djrobx
said by djrobx :Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". Are you seriously frightened by it? What's the (real) damage if someone doesn't know (or care) about everything being the best quality?
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home |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to Davros866
said by Davros866 :DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! I never said it was. 
Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! Thanks, it already is. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| reply to imrf
I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. Problem isn't quality vs flexibility...it's availability. Try to find everything on DTS, DVDA or SACD...few titles are available so of course they're going to be a tiny fraction of the market. I wouldn't buy a non-5.1 title again if given the CHOICE.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Availability and price. Those systems are pricey and the media is pretty high as well. Although I admit $20 for a DVDA isn't that much more than some standard CDs out there going for $17, but then again I never buy my CD's at $17 neither. 
I'm guessing a few more years for the equipment to go down in price and the subsequent media will as well. I'll be living the high life (audio-wise) by then.
If you ask me hard copies will never go away. Maybe CD's might fade (in a few decades) but there will always be something out there. Look at how long they have been talking about paperless offices? It will never happen. |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
1 edit | reply to oliphant
said by oliphant :I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. It's a shame that Acura didn't go for someone who knows how to make speakers. BOSE suck, they would have been better off scoring a contract with Dynaudio if they were aiming for high quality. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | The same could be said about most of the TL...but then it would be $40-$50K instead of $30K.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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EnTRANCEd
join:2003-02-04
Dublin, CA
| reply to djrobx
said by djrobx :Never underestimate the human's desire to collect things. Television shows on DVD made 2.28 billion dollars in 2004, despite the fact that most were freely available on TV networks. Lots of people have huge DVD collections even though they only watch movies once. I think on demand content will be a huge player in the coming years, but a true paradigm shift away from collectable media will likely take much longer than a century. i know that rings true for me. once the bug hit me, i started collecting DVDs. i don't even get to watch most of them, it's just the fact of collecting them. from November of last year i think i collected 145 DVDs, and that's not counting each disc from a series (ie Friends).
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Life is all about ass ... either you are covering it, kicking it, kissing it, or trying to get it |
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mad_chemist
join:2001-08-06
Salisbury, NC
| reply to TheMadSwede
Although I'm not "frightened" by people not caring about high quality audio, I do think that more titles would be released on SACD and DVD-Audio, if there was more of a demand for them. If people are satisfied with mp3-quality audio, then what's the incentive to produce a 5.1-channel, high quality mix? I'll add, though, that I'm not knocking mp3's -- I enjoy the portability and storage of mp3 (I can put 100 songs on a cd-r and play it in my car, for hours)..but at home, I enjoy my (few) SACD's and DVD-Audio disks a lot more, and I can definitely tell the difference between them and the mp3's (on my home theatre system, that is). |
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BigFresh
join:2001-05-04
Stratford, CT
| reply to jazzy112
The bottom line with me and my satellite radio was that I got similar quality to radio, WITHOUT the annoying commercials!!! A twenty minute ride in the car now gets 5-6 songs, compared to 1 to 3 (if I was lucky!) The bottom line is that there are different strokes for different folks.
To say the disc is dead is a foolish statement. Even if their preminition is true, it's not something we have to worry about now anyway. I think comparing music discs (CD's DVD-A) to video discs (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray) is foolish. I can accept a bit of loss on my music if it gives me portability when I want it. Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting the decision on HD-DVDs! I've held off my collection until they come about, because 480p won't hold a candle to 720p, 1080i, p, etc!! |
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Andoh
join:2001-02-18
Bettendorf, IA | reply to yock
I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. |
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