vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Quality vs. flexibility Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other.
The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
 ·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by djrobx  :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by djrobx :5.1+ audio on an audio-only music performance is fun, but unnecessary. A friend of mine got an Acura TL with the DVD audio system. Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though. I think the car idea is perfect. An enclosed space is the best environment for spatial audio.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility Except that with a car it's impossible to isolate yourself from outside noise (and if it was, it wouldn't be safe).
You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by imrf :said by vpoko :You also have the effect of hearing the sound differently depending on where in the car you are sitting. Exactly. You want to be in the center of the action, not in the front left position for a driver or whatever. Real life is far from perfect. I have yet to see a perfectly designed spatial audio system where everyone in the audience can hear everything perfectly. Besides, that's what distance controls are for.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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join:2001-02-18
Bettendorf, IA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Andoh :I guess that's OK as long as you are driving alone. I'm as much a sound geek as the next guy (or at least as much as I can afford to be), but there comes a point where it's an obsession. I mean, c'mon, by your logic you'd rather not have it than to not listen to it "optimally." That's purely argumentative and I guarantee you all don't mean it.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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| | Davros866
join:2001-07-23
Houston, TX
1 edit | "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! You are listening to the wrong layer of your DVD-A disk if you think it is. Dolby and DTS are compressed, lossy formats. DVD-A is an uncompressed, high bitrate, multichannel format. Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! | |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by Davros866 :DVD-Audio is NOT Dolby Digital or DTS! I never said it was. 
Try to get your player configured correctly and you'll notice a huge difference! Thanks, it already is. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| I have the TL and 5.1 is awesome and I'm glad I have it. Problem isn't quality vs flexibility...it's availability. Try to find everything on DTS, DVDA or SACD...few titles are available so of course they're going to be a tiny fraction of the market. I wouldn't buy a non-5.1 title again if given the CHOICE.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Availability and price. Those systems are pricey and the media is pretty high as well. Although I admit $20 for a DVDA isn't that much more than some standard CDs out there going for $17, but then again I never buy my CD's at $17 neither. 
I'm guessing a few more years for the equipment to go down in price and the subsequent media will as well. I'll be living the high life (audio-wise) by then.
If you ask me hard copies will never go away. Maybe CD's might fade (in a few decades) but there will always be something out there. Look at how long they have been talking about paperless offices? It will never happen. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Quality vs. flexibility The same could be said about most of the TL...but then it would be $40-$50K instead of $30K.
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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andrewe77
Gonads And Strife
join:2000-09-17
Blue Springs, MO
clubs:
| "Yes, it's totally unnecessary in a car, but at home its great. I have quite a few DVD-A discs and hearing them in Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS is great, makes music sound so much better. The car idea is dumb in general though."
I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. Yes high end audio in the car is wonderful, but having DVD-A or SACD quality would be a waste of money unless you are one of the few who want total isolation from the road and want the bragging rights. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility "Waste of money" is purely a judgement call and it really makes no difference here. There are applications other than entertainment for positional audio in a vehicle that could be useful. We also yet again get into this "optimal" argument. Why doesn't it have to be perfect to enjoy it? Last I checked most major movie theaters had positional audio. You all telling me that every seat in the house ps perfectly attuned to the positional audio system? Of course it isn't, but the effect is FAR from lost on the patrons.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility What I am saying is the audio entertainment enhancements (audio fidelity) of the more advanced sound technologies tend to be lost in an environment like the car. Regular CD audio with good hardware to back it up makes for an incredible listening experience in the car. Surface noise, impedance, and other factors in your average vehicle (in my opinion) outweigh the subtle benefits the average ear would enjoy.
Four speaker separation can easily be simulated with crossovers (if even that). Sure it's not true four directional audio, but it works. Not that I'm trying to make a point over not having a 5.1 Dolby Digital Surround car system. Positional audio wasn't my focus at all. Just audio fidelity.
Yes some people would welcome SACD capabilities in their car and yes it's a judgement call on whether or not buying one for the car is a waste of money. But I did point that out on my last comment. For the average consumer it is indeed not necessary today. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well, 5.1 implies positional audio. It has nothing to do with audio fidelity. You can get four channels of distreet audio from a cassette tape...doesn't mean it sounds like a dream. =)
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Well you brought up the usefulness of positional audio in the car. Not me . And stet I know there are vehicles out there that cut out outside environmental noise. I see the commercials all the time. But there are fewer of those out in the road than the noisy cars. My preference is to be able to hear a fair amount of what's going on outside. Makes for safer driving when you can hear things quieter than a siren or horn (or crash, etc). | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| said by SRFireside :To really reap the benefits of audiophile quality music in a car you would need a car that completely isolates the outside world. Not many cars do that. Personally I don't even want that. Not hearing the outside environment when driving is just asking for trouble. I have a Chevy Avalanche (fully loaded) and when the windows are closed I don't hear much of the outside world at all. In fact, I hear more outside noises when I'm in my living room then I do when driving around. Also, doesn't Ford advertise that the interior of new F150 is almost completely sound proof?
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
Eternity courses through my veins. | |
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| jazzy112
join:2003-12-05
Fargo, ND
| Quote:
Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". To me both Sirius and XM sound like a badly encoded MP3.
Reply:
Have you ever listened to Sirius or XM without using those stupid FM modulators? If not, you can't judge the quality of service. These technologies are very hardware dependent. If you buy cheap crap you will get crap in return. I do agree that they aren't wuite CD quality, but I have yet to hear an MP3 off the internet that sounds as good. Heck, even the sirius internet streams sound better than most MP3's you find floating on the internet. | |
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| | jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility I agree with jazzy112 , the quality is rather good (much better than MOST MP3s). I would guess that at least 85% of XM (I have not tried Serius) is at least the quality of a high-bit rate MP3 (at least 200kb/s).
It is either that or listen to static-filled, commerical filled, land-based FM. I heard a few years ago that FM was to go digital, but that is apparently bust.
Comparing satelite radio with FM terestrial radio is like comparing a Porshe to a Saturn. The Porshe is ganna sound better. Period.
Satelite is as high-quality as radio is ganna get in this age, your ganna have to live with it. | |
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BigFresh
join:2001-05-04
Stratford, CT
| The bottom line with me and my satellite radio was that I got similar quality to radio, WITHOUT the annoying commercials!!! A twenty minute ride in the car now gets 5-6 songs, compared to 1 to 3 (if I was lucky!) The bottom line is that there are different strokes for different folks.
To say the disc is dead is a foolish statement. Even if their preminition is true, it's not something we have to worry about now anyway. I think comparing music discs (CD's DVD-A) to video discs (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray) is foolish. I can accept a bit of loss on my music if it gives me portability when I want it. Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting the decision on HD-DVDs! I've held off my collection until they come about, because 480p won't hold a candle to 720p, 1080i, p, etc!! | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| said by djrobx :Yup. I'm frightened by how many people think that SAT radio is "CD quality". Are you seriously frightened by it? What's the (real) damage if someone doesn't know (or care) about everything being the best quality?
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| | mad_chemist
join:2001-08-06
Salisbury, NC
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Although I'm not "frightened" by people not caring about high quality audio, I do think that more titles would be released on SACD and DVD-Audio, if there was more of a demand for them. If people are satisfied with mp3-quality audio, then what's the incentive to produce a 5.1-channel, high quality mix? I'll add, though, that I'm not knocking mp3's -- I enjoy the portability and storage of mp3 (I can put 100 songs on a cd-r and play it in my car, for hours)..but at home, I enjoy my (few) SACD's and DVD-Audio disks a lot more, and I can definitely tell the difference between them and the mp3's (on my home theatre system, that is). | |
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TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility Exactly!
There's a place for MP3s just like there's a place for vending machines, fast food, simple restaurants and fancy restaurants.
The problem is not always the ignorance of the average consumer, as some elitists would try to maintain, but rather that the average consumer has neither the money nor the desire.
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| EnTRANCEd
join:2003-02-04
Dublin, CA
| said by djrobx :Never underestimate the human's desire to collect things. Television shows on DVD made 2.28 billion dollars in 2004, despite the fact that most were freely available on TV networks. Lots of people have huge DVD collections even though they only watch movies once. I think on demand content will be a huge player in the coming years, but a true paradigm shift away from collectable media will likely take much longer than a century. i know that rings true for me. once the bug hit me, i started collecting DVDs. i don't even get to watch most of them, it's just the fact of collecting them. from November of last year i think i collected 145 DVDs, and that's not counting each disc from a series (ie Friends).
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Life is all about ass ... either you are covering it, kicking it, kissing it, or trying to get it | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| said by vpoko :Quality vs. flexibility it ain't. People are willing to give up quality because most listeners can't distinguish a lossy format like MP3 from better-than-CD quality. Once the bandwidth is cheap enough I don't think anyone will have to sacrifice one for the other. The part about discs going away in the future is common sense. I listen t some music through Rhapsody, but if it's anything I truly enjoy I get the CD. The difference is very noticeable.
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Statistical correlation need not imply causation.
Technical Nirvana | |
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p71rock
join:2003-06-16
Saint Clair, MI | Argg! then How am I suppose to get my Anime on DVD then.
Humm, RePlayTV then I guess. | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| Re: Quality vs. flexibility said by 91439306 :Most people can't distinguish the difference because: a: they are listening on sub-$2,000 speakers b: they have never attended a classical music concert and have no idea what real music sounds like. c: a lot of people just never tried to tell the difference (ie: they never bothered to listen to the same song from different sources).
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
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