laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to pnh102
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by pnh102  :said by cbrain :Do any of the ILEC's have similar conditions to their unlimited offerings? Any other VoIP companies? You can't legally claim something is unlimited and then limit it. That's why many broadband ISPs stopped advertising "unlimited" service awhile ago. If Packet8 is indeed saying their "unlimited" service is limited, then they need to change the way they advertise their service. What entity legally protects Americans over this issue? |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by laserjobs :What entity legally protects Americans over this issue? Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and state Attorney General's offices, mostly. This is unregulated service so the FCC isn't much involved except for compiling records for later use in possible rulemakings. |
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sunny8294
Shqipe
join:2001-03-15
Localhost ;)
|  reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
Think its time to change our dictionaries, definitions are getting old now. Hopefully, I don't get into same trap as Sherry,(Yeah, currently I am a P8 freedom unlimited customer too). You should write a report to BBB! Their service has been great and everything, but their definition of unlimited is not right and shouldn't be like that. If that is what they mean by unlimited, then they should call it something like "Limited Unlimited 3000 min./month deal or whatever"?!.
Goodluck,
Sunny
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.:: Sunny ::. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to RadioDoc
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by RadioDoc :said by laserjobs :What entity legally protects Americans over this issue? Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and state Attorney General's offices, mostly. This is unregulated service so the FCC isn't much involved except for compiling records for later use in possible rulemakings. The fact that the service itself is unregulated from the FCC's perspective still doesn't shield any company from abiding by truth-in-advertising laws, no matter what business the company is in. The FTC can still enforce truth-in-advertising laws with regards to companies making claims of "unlimited" service.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
I've filled and printed out the form for the complaint to the AG's office as well as P8's TOC. I'll also print out the 'bait' (P8's claim of Unlimited calling) from the website.
Too bad I still have the hook stuck in my lower lip!
Wow, I am surprised on how my first newbie post here hit a hot topic. I'm shocked we already have 4 pages to this.
I still need to get my P8 review typed up out here so other customers don't get the hook stuck.
In the first email I sent back to P8 on Thursday, I asked if the BBB knew of their practice of selling something described as unlimited when in fact it was not. Of course I didn't get resonse to that question...it was just the canned "let us check into it" (but we won't) response.
Thanks to everyone that has helped us in means of the direction to go in with this. I won't spend much more time than I have to with P8...the taste is too sour to stay.
hmmm, where's that rep from P8 that lurks around here?...must not be touching this one with a ten foot pole.
quote:
One question though if it's all teenagers then where is all the LD coming from shouldn't the bf/gf be in roughly the same area and don't most pots lines include all the locals for like 15 bucks a month, so could it be beneficial to get your pots for the kids and only use the p8 for Ld. Might be harder to do but seems like it could work.
we live is a really small town. Guys here don't date girls here vise versa. Everything outside of town is long distance. Our main reason for Voip.
quote:
Did staying within the terms of service occur to you??
 I am staying within the terms of service. I signed up for unlimited service, which I should get. Had P8 told us that their limited unlimited service was only 3000 minutes a month, we would have kept shopping.
quote:
Kinda off-topic, but how can parents let their kids spend so much time on the phone?
I was a teenager, up till recently. My mom always got on my case for being on the phone for more than 10 to 15 minutes, unless it was important. She'd always say, instead of talking on the phone, just go do something with your friends.
So instead of talking on the phone, my friends and I did stuff. All sorts of stuff, and everyone enjoyed it much more than the phone.
You grew up in a big city, didn't you? I did and I did the same as you, where there were things to do. Try living in the sticks! I'm glad to know where my kids are and what they're doing. |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
1 edit | reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
I can't believe that all the intelligent people here EXPECT a small VoIP company to allow anyone to use 8-9K minutes a months for $19.95 p.m.
OK if you don't like the "unlimited" advertizing complain all you like. But ALL of the companies advertize the same and act the same. Or they charge much more.
I can only say "get real". Each call made by anyone ending in a POTS line has a fee to the company and a massive amount of calls is unsustainable.
Live with it. It's a $19.95 product, what do you really expect? |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by IanR :Live with it. It's a $19.95 product, what do you really expect? Everyone here is just asking Packet 8 to deliver what they advertise nothing more. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to IanR
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
All the intelligent people here EXPECT a small VoIP company to live up to their advertising. If Packet8 baits with 'unlimited' and then switches when someone tries to use the "unlimited" product they purchased, they are in violation of the law, especially if they try to charge cancellation fees or have collected upfront and don't refund those fees when the customer bolts for an honest company.
If Packet8 can't provide what they promote, they deserve to be run out of business. |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
1 edit | reply to IanR
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by IanR : But ALL of the companies advertize the same and act the same. Then why is Packet 8 the only company with this type of complaint listed here? Maybe because the other companies know it would be false advertising? |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
1 edit | reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
PERSONAL USE. 8x8's Service Plans for residential subscribers that offer unlimited minutes of PSTN calls ("Unlimited PSTN Plans") are for the reasonable personal residential use of End User only. This means that End User is not to resell or transfer the Service or Equipment to any other person for any purpose, without express written permission from 8x8 in advance. End Users of Unlimited PSTN Plans shall not use the Services for commercial or governmental purposes or for profit or non-profit activities, including, but not limited to, home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, autodialing, continuous or extensive call forwarding, continuous connectivity, fax broadcast, fax blasting, telemarketing or any other activity that would be inconsistent with personal and residential usage. End User agrees to notify 8x8 immediately if usage of the Unlimited PSTN Plans changes from personal residential to business use and subscribe to a business plan. 8x8 reserves the right to immediately terminate or modify the Services of any End User using Unlimited PSTN Plans if 8x8 determines, in its sole discretion, that End User is not using the Unlimited PSTN Plans for End User's reasonable personal residential use.
Read the above TOS carefully. Especially the words "..reasonable personable use...." and "...continuous connectivity..." I would agree with P8 that a residential account using 8-9K minutes each month is outside the "reasonable" and has elements of "continuous".
I repeat this is a $19.95 p.m. product, think about it and those TOS words.
The thread writer and a lot of other pwople are not working towards a reasonable solution here. I and a few others have made some reasonable suggestions, but they are not being taken up it seems. Complain to everyone about such a case, but I cannot see anyone wining and I cannot see it gaining a solution to the real problem. Get 2 VoIP lines and pay for them they are much cheaper than any other solution IMHO.
By the way I believe other VoIP plans have very similar TOS to P8 and I recall even AT&T's service enven noted the %K issue for a while and Yes I have seen other threads. |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by IanR :PERSONAL USE. 8x8's Service Plans for residential subscribers that offer unlimited minutes of PSTN calls ("Unlimited PSTN Plans") are for the reasonable personal residential use of End User only. This means that End User is not to resell or transfer the Service or Equipment to any other person for any purpose, without express written permission from 8x8 in advance. End Users of Unlimited PSTN Plans shall not use the Services for commercial or governmental purposes or for profit or non-profit activities, including, but not limited to, home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, autodialing, continuous or extensive call forwarding, continuous connectivity, fax broadcast, fax blasting, telemarketing or any other activity that would be inconsistent with personal and residential usage. End User agrees to notify 8x8 immediately if usage of the Unlimited PSTN Plans changes from personal residential to business use and subscribe to a business plan. 8x8 reserves the right to immediately terminate or modify the Services of any End User using Unlimited PSTN Plans if 8x8 determines, in its sole discretion, that End User is not using the Unlimited PSTN Plans for End User's reasonable personal residential use. Read the above TOS carefully. Especially the words "..reasonable personable use...." and "...continuous connectivity..." I would agree with P8 that a residential accountusing 8-9K minutes each month is outside the "reasonable" and has elements of "coninuous". I repeat this is a $19.95 p.m. product, think about it and those TOS words. The thread writer and a lot of other pwople are not working towards a reasonable solution here. I and a few others have made some reasonable suggestions, but they are not being taken up it seems. Complain to everyone about such a case but I cannot see anyone wining and I cannot see it gaining a solution to the real problem. Get 2 VoIP lines and pay for them they are much cheaper than any other solution IMHO. Easy and reasonable solution to the problem, Packet 8 should not advertise it as an "Unlimited Plan". Case and point. |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
quote:
I can't believe that all the intelligent people here EXPECT a small VoIP company to allow anyone to use 8-9K minutes a months for $19.95 p.m.
OK if you don't like the "unlimited" advertizing complain all you like. But ALL of the companies advertize the same and act the same. Or they charge much more.
I can only say "get real". Each call made by anyone ending in a POTS line has a fee to the company and a massive amount of calls is unsustainable.
Live with it. It's a $19.95 product, what do you really expect?
The other companies probably know the laws (or have better lawyers)...if you sell something as unlimited, you'd better give it as such. If you're not prepared for families like ours to come buy and actually use the service, change the TOC and our family will go elsewhere! I am REAL! I want what I joined up for...not to be switched to something I didn't sign up for (downgraded for a higher price).
I really hope they'll make some changes or they'll wish that they never offered service in IL (at least I can hope). Our AG usually doesn't go lightly on Bait and Switch tactics.
I don't know if you read some of the other posts, but Lingo offers true unlimited calling (they offer what they sell). I am living with it...I'm going to LINGO! At the same time, P8 will get a piece of my mind. |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
1 edit | reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
Goread the TOS of all the other "unlimited" offers, they all have similar conditions and ultimately they will all act in the same way in which P8 has acted against you.
Take up the battle of advertizing but it is endemic not limited to P8, not limited to VoIP industry.
But if you need a solution to your problem you won't find it fighting the advertizing issues, given the TOS. IMHO. |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
quote:
Read the above TOS carefully. Especially the words "..reasonable personable use...." and "...continuous connectivity..." I would agree with P8 that a residential account using 8-9K minutes each month is outside the "reasonable" and has elements of "continuous".
I repeat this is a $19.95 p.m. product, think about it and those TOS words.]
You know what? They should just put a number behind it...or at least a definition to reasonable personal use. 8-9k minutes is REASONABLE for my household (and probably many others sucked into this). 2k minutes may be reasonable for yours. Whatever you think, its still BAIT & SWITCH. I'm going to continue to go my route to get what was promised.
You seem to be the only one posting on P8's side. |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| reply to IanR
said by IanR :Goread the TOS of all the other "unlimited" offers, they all have similar conditions and ultimately they will all act in the same way in which P8 has acted against you. Take up the battle of advertizing but it is endemic not limited to P8, not limited to VoIP industry. But if you need a solution to your problem you won't find it fighting the advertizing issues, given the TOS. IMHO. Then why has Packet 8 been the only one accused of not offering unlimited minutes for an Unlimited Plan?
Do you have a financial interest in Packet 8 that is preventing you from presenting the clear facts over this issue? |
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swanboy
join:2001-01-22
Hollywood, FL
·Comcast
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to SLW1
laserjobs,
Your situation with P8 is wildly unacceptable to me. Perhaps it is because SunRocket spoils me, I don't know.
All I can say is that I've been with SunRocket for a while and they are great, perfect support, great service, and (the best part) dirt cheap.
Judging by the 309-807, you cannot get SR service, but I would at least signup for them to let you know, they are expanding fast.  |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
1 edit | said by swanboy :laserjobs, Your situation with P8 is wildly unacceptable to me. Perhaps it is because SunRocket spoils me, I don't know. All I can say is that I've been with SunRocket for a while and they are great, perfect support, great service, and (the best part) dirt cheap. Judging by the 309-807, you cannot get SR service, but I would at least signup for them to let you know, they are expanding fast. I think you mean to address you comment to SLW, I am just sticking up for her and asking for truth in advertising.  |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
Awe...thanks for sticking up for me!
My husband is wanting to wait and see what they offer us back. He's guessing that dept is out for the weekend.
Here's what I'll guess P8's options will be for us...
get a couple virtual numbers
get an extra line
suck us into their new DTA that accepts two phone lines (for the grand price of $80.
Even if we do lower our usage (which we shouldn't have to do), what's to say they don't come back on us next month to tell us 'oh my, you used 2900 minutes, that's not reasonable personal use for P8's standards' and still threaten to switch us. I feel that we'll still be in a battle with them over this. What gets us is why didn't they discuss this first with us before the threat? |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
1 edit | said by SLW1 :Awe...thanks for sticking up for me! My husband is wanting to wait and see what they offer us back. He's guessing that dept is out for the weekend. Here's what I'll guess P8's options will be for us... get a couple virtual numbers get an extra line suck us into their new DTA that accepts two phone lines (for the grand price of $80. Even if we do lower our usage (which we shouldn't have to do), what's to say they don't come back on us next month to tell us 'oh my, you used 2900 minutes, that's not reasonable personal use for P8's standards' and still threaten to switch us. I feel that we'll still be in a battle with them over this. What gets us is why didn't they discuss this first with us before the threat? Packet 8 was advertising that you could travel with the DTA-310 and then people who were using it out of the county got a nice email stating that because they were not in the US that they would be switched to their international plan. Yes they went to the effort to monitor and decipher IP addresses to find out who was using their service outside of the US even though it did not cost Packet 8 anything extra. I have not had Packet 8 for a long time but they never cease to amaze me with the stunts they pull to up their individual user revenue. If they just focused on their service and quality rather than how they can cut their losses and increase revenue they could be a top player in the VOIP market. One of the members around here touts Dr. Deming and Packet 8 could definitely benefit from his theories. |
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testQ
join:2004-11-09
Rochester, NY
·Teleblend
1 edit | reply to SLW1
SLW,
If I were you, I would shop around and check somebody who provide an unlimited service in my Area and talk to them the real facts of usage 8-10K is agreable and join with them if they agree. I would n't pay a single penny more for these P8 any more. I am an ex P8 member and cacelled my service last friday.
There is another solution for you. In this Forum or anandtech.com forum, I saw a voip unlimited service for lessthan $20. They do not provide dialtone but, you can dial-out and it is free for 35 countrys as well. They have different calling plans and you can select whichever you want if you think getting local telco basic line and longdistance thorugh this companyis a viable solution for you.
If you wait too much time you may run out of options and may end-up paying their ridiculous 75 equipment fee abd 59 cancellatioin fees. |
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