laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by SLW1  :Lingo was the only place I didn't look. The last time I did, they didn't have a Bloomington number. They require their own router, don't they? Or, is there a way to get around that with our NetGear router? No they do not require a router but if you have one you can put the Lingo ATA behind your router or in front of your router. I think if you try them you will be pleased.
Tigerdirect.com has the D-Link DVG-1402S/L 10/100 Mbps 4-Port Lingo Server Broadband VolP Router for free after rebate. If you order directly from Lingo ask someone here for a referral before you sign up at you will get a $25 credit after 90 days. |
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mikmousey
| reply to SLW1
I had the same exact problem about 8 months ago with Packet8. Ultimately, I ended up leaving. I've been using Broadvoice's $20 bucks a month plan for the past 7 months and have been averaging 5 to 8000 minutes per month. This is between 4 girls and 1 boy, residential use only. Haven't had any problems, and call quality was significantly better than when I had Packet8.
This is a bad business practice on packet8's part. Just thought I'd chime in with my expirience. |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| reply to SLW1
said by SLW1 :Here's the scoop.... I called P8 customer service and explained this to them. Apparently, if you hit over 3000 minutes, it starts throwing flags. Too bad you can't go with VoicePulse or Vonage, they don't even count the incoming minutes. Which is the way it should be since the VoIP carrier isn't terminating the call.
My open access line from VoicePulse($5 a month) is in an area code where I grew up. Friends and family burn that number up with all their technical questions and problems.
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FWD#64466 - »[Sipura] Make your Sipura Speak! - Step by Step |
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Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Orlando, FL
 ·Callcentric
 ·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to SLW1
I don't think that 8,000 minutes per month is unreasonable considering you have teenagers. That equates to about 5 hours a day on the telephone. I would have suspected 10,000 or more.
I side with you on this. Packet8 is being totally unreasonable with large families. It's time to shop for a new provider.
Good luck!
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FWD#537129 |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
Sherry,
I sympathise with you. Some years ago my daughter hit me up for $450.00 p.m. on a Baby Bell line. (We did indeed have a Dad to daughter chat).
I don't think, however, that P8 is doing anything to you than most other VoIP companies wouldn't do. They all have their costs for each phone call made and while small they do add it and there is no doubt that any VoIP would ultimately call a similar line {Pause here while advocates of Other companies protest, but I believe I am stating a fact).
So how to remedy the problem?
1) With P8:
May i suggest that in talking it through with the correct level at P8 you offer to purchase 2 $20.50 p.m. P8 lines so your usage is kept below a 5K and sometimes 4K p.m. usage?
2) 2 VoIP lines with 2 companies:
Promise to reduce usage going fwd, but adjusting your habits and buy another VoIP service for the family and ensure that usage is balanced out.
I know both "remedies will cost you double what you are paying now, but it seems a reasonable solution.
Another question: Do you still have a POTS line? (from a baby bell). If so make sure than a good number of people "calling into" your house use that line rather than it being counted as usage on a VoIP line.
Unfortunately unlimited by every provider really means don't go crazy. i.e. over 5K minutes per month consistently.
Good luck |
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acadiel
Keep trying - don't give up
Premium
join:2002-06-22
Bloomington, IL
·Comcast
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to SLW1
Hey, I have a 309-807 number. I work for a certain large local insurance company. 
The number is local to me. I've used around 2000 minutes a month, and I haven't a problem. I haven't gotten anywhere near 8000 minutes though.
How much broadband is out there in Minonk? |
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tlpintpe
join:2002-09-13
Spicewood, TX
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
Others may want to jump in here, but before you assume that switching to another company (Vonage, etc.) is the answer to your mega-minute-per-teenager dilemma, find out if those other companies have similar policies.
If you hang out on this board long enough (I've been here two years now), you will realize that unlimited isn't really unlimited on most services (regardless of the marketing hype). Read the Terms of Service to see if they use phrases similar to P8. Flags get thrown at some point for users with lots of minutes. |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| said by tlpintpe :Others may want to jump in here, but before you assume that switching to another company (Vonage, etc.) is the answer to your mega-minute-per-teenager dilemma, find out if those other companies have similar policies. If you hang out on this board long enough (I've been here two years now), you will realize that unlimited isn't really unlimited on most services (regardless of the marketing hype). Read the Terms of Service to see if they use phrases similar to P8. Flags get thrown at some point for users with lots of minutes. If they were 8000 incoming minutes on VoicePulse or Vonage, they wouldn't care less.
--
FWD#64466 - »[Sipura] Make your Sipura Speak! - Step by Step |
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laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
·Cox HSI
| said by digiblur :said by tlpintpe :Others may want to jump in here, but before you assume that switching to another company (Vonage, etc.) is the answer to your mega-minute-per-teenager dilemma, find out if those other companies have similar policies. If you hang out on this board long enough (I've been here two years now), you will realize that unlimited isn't really unlimited on most services (regardless of the marketing hype). Read the Terms of Service to see if they use phrases similar to P8. Flags get thrown at some point for users with lots of minutes. If they were 8000 incoming minutes on VoicePulse or Vonage, they wouldn't care less. I would agree that the only complaints about unlimited plans are coming from Packet 8 at this point. The other companies seem to care less and probably use averaging in their cost structure. |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| reply to SLW1
People, people... some of you are not giving such good advice here. The thing to find out is, first, what does a company say in their advertising? If, for example, they have a residential plan and they use the word UNLIMITED in their advertising, then if they are not really offering UNLIMITED service it is false advertising and consumer fraud, and they are lying to potential customers in their advertising. Please do not make excuses for such companies, if they do such things they are slimy companies and hopefully will soon be on the receiving end of actions instituted by the Federal Trade Commission and/or the attorney generals of the various states.
This has been discussed ever since this forum was started and no one disputes that companies have a right to verify that a customer really is using a residential service for residential purposes. But please bear in mind that even a provision buried in the Terms of Service may not necessarily override what is boldly proclaimed in advertising. A long time ago in this country, companies used to promise the moon in advertising and then take it all back in the fine print, and that is why various truth-in-advertising and other consumer protection laws were passed. This does NOT give a customer the right to screw the company by signing up for a residential plan and then using it to run a home-based telemarketing operation, but when the calls really are residential in nature then if the company has advertised "unlimited" service and then tries to pull the sort of things that have been described here, my advice would to be to contact your state's Attorney General post haste. For the original poster, that would be the Illinois Attorney General and the complaint can be started using a form available at this page:
»www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/
What would have really been the final straw for me would be if I requested to be transferred to a supervisor and the person I made that request of failed to do it. My standard response to that is, "Please give me your name and extension number" (wait for them to give it, and try to get any other identifying information you can) "I want to be sure that your company knows which employee caused me to file a complaint with my state's Attorney General, which is what I am going to do as soon as I hang up the phone." You would be surprised how often the employee in question suddenly decides it would be in his or her best interest to escalate the call!
Personally, I think that it is pretty rotten if a particular VoIP company advertises a "lowball" price for "unlimited" service, then fails to deliver what they advertised to the consumer, possibly leaving a negative taste in the mouth of their customers for all VoIP companies. I can't help noticing that the companies that advertise the lowest prices seem to be the ones that generate the most complaints, with maybe one or two exceptions. Anyway, no matter what anyone else may tell you, as far as I know it would be illegal in every state of the union to advertise "unlimited" service and not offer unlimited service. That doesn't mean they can't impose restrictions, particularly on business-related usage, but to arbitrarily tell a residential customer that they are going to be switched to a limited business plan just doesn't fly. So let your state's Attorney General investigate this, and assuming you are telling us all the facts, I suspect the company is going to wish that the employee you spoke to had put you through to a supervisor when you requested it! |
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dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29
·ViaTalk
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
I am with whyaduck on this one.
Do you think this is the consumers are partially at fault. We have allowed these companies to get away with advertising unlimited calling/minutes/access etc for so long and then revoking it in the legal babble, double talking TOS. That that don't care what we do.
The only way to solve this is to DEMAND that it is either truly unlimited or they state what the minutes usage is.
I am sure if CompanyX starts getting 40,000 plus calls and emails a day something might change. |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH | That's 4.5 hours a day. I think that P8 is loosing money on you as a client and I doubt any body at P8 will be able to help for long. If Lingo can give you a local #, I would highly recommend looking into their TOS.
Good Luck. |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
Here's the response I got from P8 (the same word for word text on both replies they sent)...
**********
Dear customer,
Please note that Packet8 wants to bring your attention to the terms and conditions, where it speaks about the Reasonable Residential Usage. You have many options to include limiting your usage or going onto the Business 2000 plan. Please let us explore these options.
Thank you
***********
Here's what they're referring to in the T&C...
10. PERSONAL USE. 8x8's Service Plans for residential subscribers that offer unlimited minutes of PSTN calls ("Unlimited PSTN Plans") are for the reasonable personal
residential use of End User only. This means that End User is not to resell or transfer the Service or Equipment to any other person for any purpose, without express written
permission from 8x8 in advance. End Users of Unlimited PSTN Plans shall not use the Services for commercial or governmental purposes or for profit or non-profit activities, including, but not limited to, home office, business, sales, tele-commuting, autodialing, continuous or extensive call forwarding, continuous connectivity, fax broadcast, fax blasting, telemarketing or any other activity that would be inconsistent with personal and residential usage. End User agrees to notify 8x8 immediately if usage of the Unlimited PSTN Plans changes from personal residential to business use and subscribe to a business plan. 8x8 reserves the right to immediately terminate or modify the
Services of any End User using Unlimited PSTN Plans if 8x8 determines, in its sole discretion, that End User is not using the Unlimited PSTN Plans for End User's reasonable personal residential use.
********************
Had we know that their unlimited calling plan was only for 3,000 minutes a month, we probably would not of gone with P8. Why do we have to change our calling habits? Are they using the Continuous Connectivity statement to get us or is it the sole discretion? I don't get it. I still see no where in this statement where we'll be switched for going over in minutes, only if they find out we're running a business (we're not).
For those that asked if we still have our POTS line...No we do not...we sent Verizon away a few weeks ago. At the time P8 served all our needs and didn't see a reason to keep the POTS, seeing as we 'had' unlimited calling.
WhyADuck...Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the link to the AG Form (we think Lisa Madigan would have a field day with this). If P8 continues to give us no other option, we will tell them we're getting a hold of our AG's office and switch to Lingo. I have unlimited long distance on the cell phone, they don't have a minute limit on that (son uses the cell phone on weekends)...unlimited long distance off the pots line (which wasn't offered here until recently, but charges over $60 a month),doesn't have limits either. Are they able to get away with this because the FCC does not regulate them?
acadiel...hmmm, large insurance company, huh? Hubby works for one of those in Blm. That's why it was no big deal to get a 807 number...most of our friends are there and everyone the kids calls would have been long distance anyhow (anything outside Podunk...um, I mean Minonk is long distance). So, as soon as we found something with a Blm number, we jumped on it. We go through Mediacom for our cable modem...a few years ago, our only option for non-dialup was Starband. We switched to cable as soon as it became available.
We tried Skype about a year ago...it was so choppy back then. We also had DialPad with the same results...just not phone quality, plus we don't want to be tied to the computer and would rather not get any special phones.
I emailed them back, but I'm guessing I won't hear back until Monday. In the meanwhile, I'll give Lingo a call to see if they have a limited unlimited plan (that's what I'm calling it now). We asked if it would help if we got a couple virtual numbers, which we're not against (we were talking about that so some family can call without LD charges) to keep the freedom unlimited plan. The customer service rep said that each phone number holds a 3000 minute limit, which would bring our account up to 9000 minutes. That's what I mentioned to P8 in the email...we'll see what they say.
You're all a great help!!! What a great forum! So, tell me, is it worth having a premium account here? |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Not to put a damper on the legal aspect (especially since I agree with WhyADuck about the definition of unlimited), but any legal action is probably going to take much longer than you want it to and may or may not be favorable in outcome. I know that legal action has been threatened at every VoIP company on this forum at one point or another but I don't recall any victories as of yet. Just food for thought.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." |
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SLW1
Premium
join:2005-03-18
Minonk, IL
| reply to SLW1
Yeah, I know. I'll still file a complaint while at the same time switching over to another provider.
I guess my thinking is if I don't file a complaint nothing will ever improve. Maybe if there's enough complaints piled up, something will change. It probably won't benefit us 'cause we'll be long gone, but may benefit current/future customers. |
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dipswich
Premium
join:2003-06-27
Raleigh, NC
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·VoicePulse for Bus..
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
| I also note that Packet8's TOS makes them determine that you are using the service for other than "reasonable residential usage." In no way does exceeding a preset number of minutes automatically meet their definition. The inclusion of "sole discretion" doesn't obviate their obligation to abide by a clear and accurate definition.
Packet8 needs to charge their losses to their marketing department for choosing the "unlimited" word and just swallow them, just like many Bells do for a residence with unlimited "local" calling.
I'm not using many minutes at all. I'll loan you some of mine. |
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JTY
join:2004-05-29
Ellensburg, WA
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to SLW1
Kinda off-topic, but how can parents let their kids spend so much time on the phone?
I was a teenager, up till recently. My mom always got on my case for being on the phone for more than 10 to 15 minutes, unless it was important. She'd always say, instead of talking on the phone, just go do something with your friends.
So instead of talking on the phone, my friends and I did stuff. All sorts of stuff, and everyone enjoyed it much more than the phone. |
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Nate425
Premium
join:2005-02-03
Charlottesville, VA
clubs:
| reply to dipswich
PACKET8 INCLUDED FEATURES
UNLIMITED MINUTES
Designed with both residential and business customers in mind, Packet8 allows anyone with broadband (high-speed) Internet access to use their regular phone to make UNLIMITED calls to anywhere in the U.S. and Canada . Packet8 subscribers get worldwide UNLIMITED In-Network calling to other Packet8 subscribers at no extra charge. Straight from the features list on the P8 website. I don't think the issue should be why the kids are on the phone so much, it should be why isn't packet 8 living up to what they advertise. I think she's got a good case if she wants to pursue it, but I'm no lawyer. |
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lmjh7065
Premium
join:2001-04-04
Cincinnati, OH
·QuantumVoice
| reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unlimited overuse
It appears that Packet8 "baited" you with their advertising for unlimited local and long distance (US & Canada) for the unheard of price of $20/month. Then they want to "switch" you to a higher rate "limited" plan. Way to go P8 to win friends and customers.
But, so far no one has mentioned that if you don't like this they will then want to charge you just a measly $59 "disconnection" fee. Way to go P8 to win even more customers and friends.
When I first read about all this, all I can say is that someone in (mis)management should have their bag nailed to a tree.
A sad day indeed for VoIP - shame on you P8.
Hope it all works out well for you - please don't let them get away with this. |
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pcmeet
Official Dta Guru
join:2003-09-15
Montgomery, AL
3 edits | reply to SLW1
Re: [Packet8] P8 switching us to Business2000.unli
said by SLW1 :Last months usage was....drumroll.....8500 minutes. This month we're already over 5000. The best way to resolve this problem is to have a 2nd Packet8 line for another $20 a month then you can have up to 10000 minutes a month without worry about Packet8 switching you to business plans, ask them to send you the BPA-410 adapter it is built in 2 lines.
also will be less waiting in line to use the phone, 2 calls at the same time, thinking mass production.  |
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