yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | reply to macmouse
Re: just use trillian or gaim
Legally they can't change the agreement that you have previously agreed to. So if you downloaded the program before Feb 3rd like the article says then they shouldn't be able to monitor your IMs. Technically they can but legally they can't. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| said by yabos  :Legally they can't change the agreement that you have previously agreed to. So if you downloaded the program before Feb 3rd like the article says then they shouldn't be able to monitor your IMs. Technically they can but legally they can't. Incorrect. It's a ToS agreement, it can be changed at anytime providing the changed agreement is provided to you somewhere...which it is.
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Forum Posts:6000 |
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jayperkins
join:2001-05-19
Brookhaven, MS | reply to yabos
Yes, but if you updated since then, you are under the new TOS. You agree to it on the download. They can force compliance by just telling everyone there is a big security hole and they must update. When you do, you are under the new TOS. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
1 edit | said by jayperkins :Yes, but if you updated since then, you are under the new TOS. You agree to it on the download. They can force compliance by just telling everyone there is a big security hole and they must update. When you do, you are under the new TOS. incorrect again. As soon as you connect to the AIM network you are under the new ToS based on the fact that the ToS itself states that it is subject to change.
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jayperkins
join:2001-05-19
Brookhaven, MS | Interesting. If that is true, why do they say
"The following terms and conditions apply to all users who either registered for AIM services or downloaded AIM updates or software on or after February 5, 2004."
Curious. |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| They could have lawyer-speaked it better than that. I'm not sure if it says - "The following terms and conditions apply to all users who either registered for AIM services" or "downloaded AIM updates or software on or after February 5, 2004." as if it was 2 different parts separated by an "or". They could have meant it as a complete sentence. There is just too many "or"s to parse for me. And what if someone registers or downloads after that date and talks to somebody who has not downloaded a new version or happened to register before that date?
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"The bad news is that we are told that Michael Powell, one of Washington's better bureaucrats, is calling it quits today after four years at the helm of the Federal Communications Commission." - WSJ 2005/01/21 |
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Pake
If you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Qumahlin
said by Qumahlin :said by jayperkins :Yes, but if you updated since then, you are under the new TOS. You agree to it on the download. They can force compliance by just telling everyone there is a big security hole and they must update. When you do, you are under the new TOS. incorrect again. As soon as you connect to the AIM network you are under the new ToS based on the fact that the ToS itself states that it is subject to change. I think the only way you can be subject to whatever a new ToS says is if they show you the new ToS and agree to it, since it is considered a legal binding contract.
So unless you are shown the new ToS before you sign on, they are still limited to the old ToS you agreed to. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| ou Must Agree to these Terms of Service to Use AIM Products
By using or registering for an AIM Product (defined below), you agree to these terms and conditions ("Terms of Service") and the AIM Privacy Policy. You agree to accept notices electronically. Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of Service. If you do not wish to be bound by these Terms of Service, you may discontinue using the AIM Products.
Take note of this line which backs up everything I said
Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of Service
So EVERYTIME you sign on AIM you are agreeing to whatever the current ToS is...
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Forum Posts:6000 |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| I'm always amazed on BBR at these lengthy conversations of the applicability of various pieces of TOS's. The fact of the matter is: the law and case law interprets and construes TOS's and does so differently in different jurisdictions. The terms they add are often disregarded.
Just because they say often, for example, that by using the service you agree to whatever the terms are, even if they've changed since they last time you saw them, doesn't mean it's so. They put that here hoping that later they'll win in court, but often they lose. |
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Pake
If you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Qumahlin
said by Qumahlin :ou Must Agree to these Terms of Service to Use AIM Products By using or registering for an AIM Product (defined below), you agree to these terms and conditions ("Terms of Service") and the AIM Privacy Policy. You agree to accept notices electronically. Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of Service. If you do not wish to be bound by these Terms of Service, you may discontinue using the AIM Products. Take note of this line which backs up everything I said Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of ServiceSo EVERYTIME you sign on AIM you are agreeing to whatever the current ToS is... Hmmmm, would be quite fun to take AOL to court for creating an easy to abuse loophole for themselves.
Maybe the broadband community should team up and try to fight this type of sneakiness. Many game companies (Blizzard, SOE, Mythic to name a few) already make you re-accept their ToS after patches, so it only seems fit that all companies should be required too if any changes occur. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to JoeOnSunset
said by JoeOnSunset :I'm always amazed on BBR at these lengthy conversations of the applicability of various pieces of TOS's. The fact of the matter is: the law and case law interprets and construes TOS's and does so differently in different jurisdictions. The terms they add are often disregarded. Just because they say often, for example, that by using the service you agree to whatever the terms are, even if they've changed since they last time you saw them, doesn't mean it's so. They put that here hoping that later they'll win in court, but often they lose. Can you give an example of "often they lose"? I am not aware of any major/current court case where a ToS/EULA has been found invalid.
The core reason being if you violate the ToS your not breaking the law so the only applicable punishment is you can be banned from the service, in which case you have no legal recourse as AOL is not legally required to allow you to use AIM.
I've seen this come up at Comcast. We have customer who will violate the ToS, argue with us that they never accepted the ToS or signed anything. Well to bad, you violated it, your service is terminated, go find another provider. If the customer has the money they can attempt to take us to court, but the bottom line is we don't have to offer them the service in the first place so it really doesn't matter if the ToS was invalid or not, they still aren't getting their service back.
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Forum Posts:6000 |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to Pake
said by Pake :said by Qumahlin :ou Must Agree to these Terms of Service to Use AIM Products By using or registering for an AIM Product (defined below), you agree to these terms and conditions ("Terms of Service") and the AIM Privacy Policy. You agree to accept notices electronically. Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of Service. If you do not wish to be bound by these Terms of Service, you may discontinue using the AIM Products. Take note of this line which backs up everything I said Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of ServiceSo EVERYTIME you sign on AIM you are agreeing to whatever the current ToS is... Hmmmm, would be quite fun to take AOL to court for creating an easy to abuse loophole for themselves. Maybe the broadband community should team up and try to fight this type of sneakiness. Many game companies (Blizzard, SOE, Mythic to name a few) already make you re-accept their ToS after patches, so it only seems fit that all companies should be required too if any changes occur. You can't merely take a company to court based on their ToS for a service that is of optional use.
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Forum Posts:6000 |
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Pake
If you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | said by Qumahlin :said by Pake :said by Qumahlin :ou Must Agree to these Terms of Service to Use AIM Products By using or registering for an AIM Product (defined below), you agree to these terms and conditions ("Terms of Service") and the AIM Privacy Policy. You agree to accept notices electronically. Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of Service. If you do not wish to be bound by these Terms of Service, you may discontinue using the AIM Products. Take note of this line which backs up everything I said Each time you use an AIM Product, you reaffirm your acceptance of the then-current Terms of ServiceSo EVERYTIME you sign on AIM you are agreeing to whatever the current ToS is... Hmmmm, would be quite fun to take AOL to court for creating an easy to abuse loophole for themselves. Maybe the broadband community should team up and try to fight this type of sneakiness. Many game companies (Blizzard, SOE, Mythic to name a few) already make you re-accept their ToS after patches, so it only seems fit that all companies should be required too if any changes occur. You can't merely take a company to court based on their ToS for a service that is of optional use. Unfortunately the liberals have taught us that you can take someone to court for anything these days. |
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