sirsloop
Premium
join:2004-02-18
New York, NY | dont really care...
Do you really think they care about you talking dirty to your girlfriend?
Unless you have somthin to hide...LIKE MURDER OR KIDDY PRON....who cares? |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
1 edit | said by sirsloop  :Do you really think they care about you talking dirty to your girlfriend? Unless you have somthin to hide...LIKE MURDER OR KIDDY PRON....who cares? Another dopey mole raises it's ignorant a$$ for all to see...whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME*...whew, well you get the idea...
Ever hear of the Constitution, Bill of Rights? Thought not... |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:
| said by ross :said by sirsloop :Do you really think they care about you talking dirty to your girlfriend? Unless you have somthin to hide...LIKE MURDER OR KIDDY PRON....who cares? Another dopey mole raises it's ignorant a$$ for all to see...whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME*...whew, well you get the idea... Ever hear of the Constitution, Bill of Rights? Thought not... Can you please refresh my memory on the part of the Bill of Rights that talks about online privacy?
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The new Secure-Wifi.net is open!
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Optimum Online
| said by Bill :said by ross :said by sirsloop :Do you really think they care about you talking dirty to your girlfriend? Unless you have somthin to hide...LIKE MURDER OR KIDDY PRON....who cares? Another dopey mole raises it's ignorant a$$ for all to see...whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* whack it *THUMP* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME* Troll *FLAME*...whew, well you get the idea... Ever hear of the Constitution, Bill of Rights? Thought not... Can you please refresh my memory on the part of the Bill of Rights that talks about online privacy? I'm sure he didn't mean that it was ILLEGAL to do this (it's AOL's network, they can do what they want) but there is a thing called freedom of speech so technically you are NOT committing a crime when talking about those types of things, but AOL might not like it. Now if you were to know of a crime, that is conspiracy.
-Tzale
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Hey OOL, throttle this! I'm going to FIOS...Verizon FIOS Forum |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to ross
said by ross Ever hear of the Constitution, Bill of Rights? Thought not...[/BQUOTE:When you use AIM/ICQ, you are making use of a privately owned network. Those services are provided to you under terms set forth by the owners of those networks/services. As such, you are not shielded by the constitution. It's much like if you were to come into my house and start shooting off your mouth. You have no guaranteed right to do so. I can chose to throw you off my property, record you, whatever. Your Constitutionally enumerated "rights" end as soon as you leave your property or U.S. public spaces. -tom --
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith
| reply to sirsloop
You may not think you have nothing to hide, but they now claim the right to 'reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote' any conversations on their network.
The key word there is 'adapt'. The most simplest things can be re-worded to make you look real bad. Granted, they probably wouldn't care/do this, but you never know.
Bye Bye AIM & ICQ |
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joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | reply to Tzale
You are wrong. Certain types of speech are crimes - for example, threatening someone with bodily harm is illegal even though it is "speech". |
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anonymous1608
@24.61.x.x
| reply to Tzale
The issue involves more that AOL's network. It involves your machine:
Do a chkdsk /F using after installing (and using) the lastest version of AIM.
There are two dangling files not allocated in the NTFS bitmap. You would never know they're there if you hadn't done a chkdsk /F.
I presume those files record what you type, not just what was sent over their network (which may have been encrypted). So it's spy/malware IMHO...
Or perhaps it's a bug, but that seems doubtful given the coincidence. |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | reply to Bill
said by user=Sw Bill:
Can you please refresh my memory on the part of the Bill of Rights that talks about online privacy?
The 10th Amendment.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
Which means this is only a state law away from getting K.O.ed...which in this era of online privacy being a great soap box is only a matter of time (that is if there aren't already state laws prohibiting it).
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Don't get it, demand it! The Anime Network www.theanimenetwork.com |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to nixen
said by nixen :When you use AIM/ICQ, you are making use of a privately owned network. Those services are provided to you under terms set forth by the owners of those networks/services. As such, you are not shielded by the constitution... HORSESHIT! Furthermore, It is the willy-nilly "Unless you have somthin to hide...LIKE MURDER OR KIDDY PRON....who cares?" attitude about suffering the loss of your presumption of privacy that bothers me. If you are having a conversation another private party using AIM, you should be assured of the privacy of your communication, barring a court ordered tap. You people that believe you surrender your right to privacy because you hire a carrier to move your data are full of shit. Telephone companies spring immediately to mind. Every dumbfuck who gives up the right to privacy based on some mangled-up mis-application of private property concepts injures those who have no intention of surrendering their right to privacy. Just because some company says they are going to violate your rights, "like it, or lump it", doesn't necessarily make it legal for them to do so.
If I hire an ISP to transport my data/communications, I do not give up my right of privacy. I fully expect that the ISP is NOT routinely monitoring/intercepting my traffic (voice, data, written communications) and claiming a proprietary right to use them in any way they see fit. Same with the use of AIM. I appreciate that they are announcing the change in their policy of observing my right to privacy. Whether they have the legal right to "listen in" on my conversations, written or oral, or claim ownership of the ideas expressed therein by declaration is, or should be, a subject of adjudication. |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| You seem to be missing the obvious - your own term, "hire". That is to say, a service you are paying for. Last I checked, AIM was a free service. It's provided at AOL's discretion.
With the phone companies, you pay to use their resources. Phone companies are also considered "public utilities" with a special class of regulations, but that's a whole other subject area.
You also pay to use your ISP's services. As a paying customer, you negotiate with them the terms of your services. As to why most ISPs don't routinely reserve the right to monitor data transiting their networks, it's because they are in a legal grey area. While not formally defined as such, they occupuy a role akin to a public utility, since communications transiting their networks may or may not be strictly sourced by or delivered to members of their networks. That said, the courts already have ruled in favor of a service provider's rights to use data transiting their networks as they see fit (so long as it's a "store and forward" operation). In fact, there was a very public case about this that was featured on DSLR a few months back.
AIM/ICQ, unlike the phone network or ISPs' networks, is a closed network. All communications originate and terminate within the AIM construct (at the gateways/servers - e.g., *.messaging.aol.com). A such, it would fall under much the same provisions as an employer's networks. Again, courts have already ruled that such private networks can be managed as the network owner sees fit.
AIM and ICQ also are not monopolies in any sense. There are many other methods of "chat". You are free to use other services that more closely align themselves with your personal ideas of integrity. You are also free to write your own chat tools. AIM and ICQ are also free and provided "as is". You don't have a specific right to use them, nor do you have any specific rights when you do use them. However, if you don't like the terms of service but do wish to continue using the service, then maybe you should try to renegotiate your terms of service with AOL.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| reply to oliphant
How about the 9th amendment? You know, the one that the other half of the signers wanted because they were worried that the enumeration of rights would be construed as limiting them? This "can you show me the part of the constitution that guarantees your privacy" thinking is exactly why they wrote this:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
The Constitution was written by people who believed in the philosophy that civil liberties were so obvious and natural that they were automatically guaranteed ("unalienable," even!) and unquestionable. It's been a long time since then. It's too bad that in school they make you memorize these things but so often don't teach you what they mean.
The point is: The Bill of Rights isn't there to provide you a list of all your rights. It just lists some of your rights that were most important to the framers at the time. People... get that through your heads!!!! |
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teambnet
Team B Group
Premium
join:2003-05-06
Chicago, IL
| Let's get legal facts straight:
The unaliable rights and the civil liberties you talk about are those that deal in the public space and way and are about the relationship between people and their chosen mode of interacting with other people: the government. The BOR was strictly about government interacting with individuals moreover the federal "right to privacy" is not actually spelled out anywhere in the BOR or the Constitution.
Corporations, commercial ventures and the like are allowed to regulate speach in their venue largely at will if it those limitations are clearly spelled out and agreed to a priori by the parties involved- like when you click "I accept" on the download page.
The upshot: If AOL says you have no privacy on the commercial venue/interface that they own and operate then you have no privacy and there is little that anyone can do to challenge it. It is a contradiction of sorts but, the more private the concern the less likely you are to have your privacy protected. |
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scomps
join:2001-06-05
Utica, NY
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale :I'm sure he didn't mean that it was ILLEGAL to do this (it's AOL's network, they can do what they want) but there is a thing called freedom of speech so technically you are NOT committing a crime when talking about those types of things, but AOL might not like it. Now if you were to know of a crime, that is conspiracy. -Tzale You're free to say whatever you like on AIM. They however, as owners of a private network (and allowing you to make use of their resources) are also free to look at whatever you say, no matter how trivial, private or sensitive that information is. There is no restriction of your freedom of speech in this regard.
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Scott Johnson -- developer of MWall. Contact me for more information. |
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ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| reply to nixen
In response to ferricOxide:
The problem, Tom, is that the owners of networks such as AIM hold themselves out to be providers of a communications network for their users. Unless the user intends for his communications to be non-private by entering a chatroom for public discussion, he has a presumption of privacy, notwithstanding the state of internet security in general. The provider is, furthermore, protected by law from liability for content passing through their servers. They have no right to invade anyone's privacy by monitoring, tapping, intercepting, excerpting, or taking for their own uses the communications, ideas, content that were never intended to be public by the originating user, and that are otherwise protected, by the simple declaration and assertion of so-called "property rights". Who the fuck are you kidding? "Store and Forward" means what it says, and implies, from the sender through server for delivery to INTENDED recipient. Not for dissemination to every Tom, Dick and Harry who thinks they can get away with violating the private rights and private conversations of others by the mere providing of the communications channel. Free, or paid, has nothing to do with it.
Mis-use of an employer's network for private communications, where there can be no expectation of privacy, is a completely separate matter. |
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