rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
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| Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contract
OK, maybe in a general way this has been covered before, but I thought I'd add another data point.
With the new billing terms (must commit to a new one year term contract, or pay more per month), I decided it was less than useful to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 more per month ($29.95/mo. vs. $37.95/mo.) for essentially the same service. Well...be careful with this one. I called them up to agree to the new term. This is the only activity on my account for over a year. (The last time, I asked for my upstream to go from 128K to 384K.) So...I call the general number, ask the automated system for billing. The billing CSR could not handle me directly, and transfers me to "retention(s)." Suddenly, "I don't qualify for 1.5M/384K service." Horse hockey. I've been at 1.5M/384K for quite some time, probably over a year. Supposedly, one system they use refuses to allow them to change my rate from 768K/128K to 1.5M/384K, but some other system will allow the change.
Boy, this made me angry. I even joked with the guy (but actually somewhat seriously), "so--you want me to be a Power Link customer..." One thing that is disturbing is that the retention CSR postulated that the change should be immediate, but upon resetting the DSL connection, nothing happened; I was still at the 864/160 sync rate. Then he said it might take a couple of hours for the change to occur. Ummmmmm...OK. As of this writing, about an hour later, a modem reset still doesn't show me the higher rate. I'll continue to monitor the situation, and believe you me, if I don't get the higher rate soon, I'll be calling again.
Another thing that REALLY annoys me (and yes, I know I might be in the minority here) is that all the email from Verizon comes only in HTML. The notice that my service (speed) was going to be downgraded, and then another one that my service was downgraded, of course came that way. It went into my "bulk" box because typically, nothing of any import comes to me without at least one text/plain part. Verzon currently does not offer an option to receive plain text messages (, dammit).
One thing the billing CSR told me is that I would not be charged the early termination fee because the service offering suddenly changed. And in yet another inconsistency, the CSR who was confirming my 1 yr. commitment was making sure I understood that the early termination fee would be $99; this morning, another CSR told me it was only $49.
So...just be careful when you're comitting to this new one year contract. Your service may mysteriously degrade. It sounds an awful lot like the debacle where people's houses mysteriously moved thousands of feet during the last major service change.
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
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join:2000-11-09
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| Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contra
(I don't know why the "edit" link is not available, so here we go with a reply)
Arghhhhh!!!! We have the re-emergence of the mysterious multi-thousand foot moves. I used to be pegged at 12000 ft. or so; a CSR now tells me the line spans 16000 ft. from the CO to my apartment, hence my ineligibility for 1.5M/384K service (must be within 15000). I have gone nowhere. If I have moved centimeters (oh, idunno, due to seismic activity), it would be a lot.
I'm still working on getting my service restored to previous levels.
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gracie
Geek Goddess
Premium
join:2003-07-15
confusion
| said by rchandra  :Arghhhhh!!!! We have the re-emergence of the mysterious multi-thousand foot moves. ...I'm still working on getting my service restored to previous levels. nothing verizon does ticks me off more than this (and that's saying a LOT since their idiotic "block all of europe's email" fiasco). same thing happened to me when i called to get the upgrade to 3/768---a regular wizard of oz happening...my apartment house flew through the air in the middle of the night while i was sleeping  .
i fought this tooth and nail and FINALLY (by going through retention) got someone who agreed to let the CO do the calculation---and they found me to be at the same 9600 or so i always was. had 3/768 in no time after that. but it cost me a lot of time and aggravation.
don't give up! your situation is even more ridiculous than mine---i was asking for a speed increase, you're merely changing your billing plan and want the same speed you have been successfully getting all along.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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dtk13
join:2005-01-16
Amherst, NH
| reply to rchandra
Welcome to the club... 
I cant get dsl right now but I have been told so many different things that I dont know what to believe. I have ordered DSL 3 different times!!! And each one of them has been canceled!  It is really aggravating!!!!!!! To the point you want to rip all the phone wires out of your house and burn them... |
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mikepd
Discovery
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-26
New Port Richey, FL
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Start a new thread in the forum describing the reasons you were given for the order cancellations. In order to get DSL at a certain speed your CO must be wired for DSL, you must have them as the ILEC, and you must be within a certain wire-length to get the given service level.
By FCC regulation, Verizon is three separate business units when it comes to DSL. Verizon, the ILEC, VASG, they control network operations, and Verizon Online the ISP.
You can select another ISP as long as they have equipment co-located in your CO which is why the units were split by the FCC rule.
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Acidbaby
join:2004-06-01
Shamokin, PA
·Service Electric B..
| reply to rchandra
Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contract
what dont people get about loop length? it doesnt matter if your address didnt move for your line length to change ffs.
has there been any construction in the area? new home built? new wiring put up? something as simple as a new home being built in the area can destroy you. |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
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join:2000-11-09
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2 edits | Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contra
No, it's what you don't get about my service. Up until 02-Mar-2005, it was just fine at 1.5M/384K. I did not suffer any outages. They just arbitrarily decided to say my loop was longer so that I no longer qualify for that tier of service. If there has been construction or anything else like that, it would imply my service would be down for some time as they reroute my phone line through different cables. No, there was nothing like that. There was no construction, no new homes, nothing. The last time a cable has been run anywhere near me was two summers ago, and that cable is still coiled up, right outside my apartment, and is still not connected to anything (on the end I can see). This is in a section of Buffalo where the vast majority of buildings were constructed in the 1920s, so there's not a whole lot of new construction. You really think the CWA are going to be fiddling with cables at around midnight, which is when my data rates changed?
The bottom line on this is that 128K up is absolutely, positively no good whatsoever. I need a bare minimum of 200K. Because I am a VoIP subscriber, I will accept nothing less (I want to make 3-way calls, with approx. 100K required for each call leg). The BBR line monitoring graphs also show the RTT increased by 66% from an average of 30ms to 50ms right at the time in the email stating my line was reprovisioned. That means my VoIP calls will similarly suffer in quality due to the increased latency.
It's extraordinarily simple. I either get restored to the provisioning of before, or I cease to be their customer. If they attempt to charge my credit card, I will dispute the charges, and never pay. The bottom line is, plainly and simply, they screwed me. They got me to commit verbally to another year of service with the threats of charging me if I cancel or charging me a higher rate if I won't commit, then they totally change the "playing field." Frack that. |
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gracie
Geek Goddess
Premium
join:2003-07-15
confusion
| said by rchandra :then they totally change the "playing field." Frack that. i understand your frustration (and agree that acidbaby missed the boat on this one---if your loop length really had changed, your 1.5 wouldn't have worked before your request), but did you even read my note above? there ARE ways (frustrating and annoying, yes, but often effective) to get this cleared up.
i did, and am enjoying both faster speeds and the low price (and of course the priceless assurance that my house didn't fly through the air in the middle of the night ). good luck!
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
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| Yes, I have read above. I was just more or less responding to acidbaby that loop lengths don't magically change without someone noticing. yeah....I guess I did also vent some more frustration.
Yes, I sure do hope I don't have to switch. The reason I've been a VOL customer since 2000 is that the alternatives, up until this speed issue, are worse. Most are considerably pricier; some (Earthlink and (Adelphia) Power Link) are only moderately more but I'm not too hot on their reputations.
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gracie
Geek Goddess
Premium
join:2003-07-15
confusion
| said by rchandra :Yes, I sure do hope I don't have to switch. The reason I've been a VOL customer since 2000 is that the alternatives, up until this speed issue, are worse. Most are considerably pricier; some (Earthlink and (Adelphia) Power Link) are only moderately more but I'm not too hot on their reputations. exactly! you've reflected my reasons for choosing, and staying with, VOL up to now. which is why i thought you might need a little encouragement in dealing with the idjits you may encounter over there!
i can't begin to describe what i went through about this; what started as my laughingly and sweetly joking about the house flying through the air ended up with one of my VERY rare "being a b*tch" episodes, which (pathetically) finally got results. three supervisors, one who kept promising and never delivered. ended up hooked to a top-level manager in tampa who not only got me the 3/768 and corrected the erroneous loop length, but has become a cyberfriend. (unfortunately, he doesn't have any power over the stupid international email issue).
so you ain't alone, and i'd encourage you to hang in there. ask for retention, request (over and over) a higher-level supervisor, keep making the point (over and over) that you already HAD the 1.5 speed working fine, just requested the price decrease, suggest (and eventually insist---honey's always better if it works ) they have the CO do the loop length, not their remote tools, and hopefully, it will get resolved. with a free month for your trouble .
good luck! if only verizon realized that many people feel as we do---that it is a great speed for a great price and a great choice in broadband---and stopped being so stupid with those who would be their greatest fans.
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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Acidbaby
join:2004-06-01
Shamokin, PA | reply to rchandra
Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contract
You want to check it for yourself go here:
»routemap.esri.com/rmims/dsl_web/
that is about the most accurate i have seen and gave me the exact same LL as verizon. |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
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| Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contra
Thank you for this link. I apologize for maybe not being as diplomatic in my reply as I might have been if I were in a better state of mind (meaning, if I were less frustrated).
However...I tried this for my DSL number and location and it yielded:
Microsoft JScript runtime error '800a138f'
'null' is null or not an object
/rmims/dsl_web/FindDSL.asp, line 160
Snicker...maybe it's down while VZ fix up their database  .
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gracie
Geek Goddess
Premium
join:2003-07-15
confusion
| said by rchandra :However...I tried this for my DSL number and location and it yielded: Microsoft JScript runtime error '800a138f'
'null' is null or not an object
/rmims/dsl_web/FindDSL.asp, line 160
Snicker...maybe it's down while VZ fix up their database . it ain't just you, i get the same error there just now. and it's not part of verizon .
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graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
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1 edit | reply to rchandra
Even more data:
Get this...I thought I would do an end-run of sorts around Verizon's stupid systems, and try another provider...in this case, Information Boulevard. IB operate by renting out Verizon's DSLAM, and have them establish an ATM PVC back to their facilities. A TSR at IB first of all says he cannot order the rate I requested (apparently meaning Verizon resellers operate under the constraints of Verizon themselves, and cannot be requested or ordered to override that). Furthermore, he did a qualification on my line, and it was 17900 feet!! So not only are Verizon gerryrigging their databases, they're reporting even longer loop lengths to their competitors.
Thanks a F$#%@#$ING lot, Verizon.
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mikepd
Discovery
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join:2000-10-26
New Port Richey, FL
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to rchandra
Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contract
A return of 17,900' is usually an indication that Verizon, the ILEC did some work on the lines and the change has not propagated thru to the various databases involved in deploying DSL.
Once the databases are updated then you should be able to get an accurate reading of your loop length. You should request an MLT to determine your real loop length as most ISP's simply do a map-based lookup rather than an actual line test.
AFAIK, only the ILEC or VASG (used to be called VADI) can perform an MLT.
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brownrd
Premium
join:2001-12-09
Parkville, MD | reply to rchandra
I could have told you this. I will not call Verizon for anything short of a total meltdown of my DSL service. This very same thing happened to me - three times! I finally got my loop length corrected, but I still don't trust 'em. |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
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| reply to rchandra
Re: Beware of signing up for new rate/1 yr. contra
OK, more interesting news. I called the main Customer Serivce number (for analog service) at Verizon and after explaining my problem briefly, they transferred me to Repair (and mind you, this wasn't just a transfer to the main Repair number where their automated system would answer; this was directly to a live agent). I briefly explained what my situation was, and after a lot of clicking and so on that I heard, the TSR said the length statistic came back blank. Hmmm...
Postulated reasons (on which I'd like y'all to comment) :
•If there is DSL on the line, the analog division's MLT does not have access (is precluded from "seeing") the loop length statistic (but you'd think the TSR would be aware of that with the proliferation of DSL)
•having DSL on the line interferes with the analog division's length measurement
•combining the above two, loop length (or at least EWL) can only be determined by someone accessing the DSLAM
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