vonsen
Just Because
Premium
join:2005-01-06
1 edit | reply to Gericurlswrl
Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax
said by Gericurlswrl  :Curious, but how is collecting taxes on something that is not taxable legal? At my business, we can't charge a fictitious tax on our products, or we would surely be investiated by state authorities. You can get away with a lot of dubious activities if you are a large corporation with a sizable legal staff. It's hard to be certain. Any attorney's here, familiar with the relevent case law care to chime in? I was thinking that they might escape on a technicality and the presumption that a billion dollar enterprise had probably sought a legal opinion in advance.
They shouldn't be collecting an unlevied tax. But their terms + conditions are written to supposedly allow them to collect anticipated taxes. I think that they would eventually have to issue some type of credit if the tax wasn't eventually levied. Perhaps they want to start collecting tax now on the vanishing small possibility that it could be a retroactive tax. More likely they want the profit (interest) on collected taxes in escrow. Or my best guess: collecting tax at this point is just a smoke screen to deflect attention from the much larger 7.5% RRF they are slapping on each number or 15% for a lingo subscriber that has a second virtual number. |
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tj008
join:2004-06-24
Cincinnati, OH
| Glad I cancelled my second (virtual) phone line last month. Guess I'll next downgrade my service plan.
Maybe that could be the drum sound needed. Everyone downgrade their plan to the 14.95 level.
Would 5 bucks mean much?
A buck fifty seems to.
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bjohn
join:2002-09-02
Franklin Square, NY
| I'm curious about something. As of now FCC doesn't mandate VOIP services to be taxed.
Even if the FCC does mandate taxes to be collected at a later date, will the voip providers be asked to pay FCC taxes from the previous periods?
If not, how can they charge taxes now? |
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hihiken
join:2004-04-14
Colorado Springs, CO
| reply to Robbob90210
I just have few question.
1) If I cancel the service. Do I have to pay cancellation fees? I had service for 5month. If yes how much?
2) Can I port my number to someone else? (It is originally from SBC)
3) Or SHould I wait until I finish 1 year contract?
This is really bad.. Lock up the people with contract and rise the fee..
I guess If they rise $50 I still have to pay because of contract... Any Lawyer? |
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usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs: | Re: [Lingo] going to charge Excise and Reg Tax
You can't cancel, then port.
I ported a Vonage issued number to BroadvoxDirect 
(It took a month that I had to hang onto Vonage.) |
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caseydoug
join:2001-08-14
Seattle, WA
| reply to Robbob90210
Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax
I don't have much confidence of success in a legal claim against Lingo on account of these charges. First, the Terms and Conditions allow Lingo to impose "tax-like charges" and "tax-related surcharges" ("Taxes"). We can argue about whether these charges are valid, but Lingo has at least a colorable legal right to collect them in the first instance. If a challenged Tax is found to be invalid, Lingo is required to compensate its subscribers, either by reducing rates for a period of time, refunding the money, or taking other specified actions.
Second, Lingo's service is month-to-month, and it has expressly reserved the right to raise rates at any time. It could have collected the same amount of money simply by calling this a price increase. It is hard to see how subscribers are harmed by calling it "Taxes."
Third, Lingo has the right to change the Terms and Conditions at any time. Thus, if you think you have some rights under your service agreement, wait a month and Lingo can take them away.
We may have a claim under the federal or state consumer protection laws on account of "unfair or deceptive acts and practices" -- false advertising, consumer fraud, etc. -- but it would only make sense to bring such a claim as a class action.
As vonsen says, the taxes are really the smaller part of these surcharges, amounting to around 60 cents per month on Lingo's unlimited residential service (As I pointed out in another thread, these taxes have nothing to do with the FCC). The larger charge is the regulatory recovery fee, which adds $1.50 per line. That amounts to a 30% increase in the cost of "universal" numbers. Maybe the best way to protest this is for everyone to cancel their extra phone numbers.
Hihiken asked about the cancellation fee. I suspect Lingo will charge you $40 if you cancel. Whether they are entitled to do so is another matter. However, since you pay by credit card, you control whether Lingo can actually collect this fee. And even if you do pay the cancellation fee, you get to keep your adapter. |
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hkvalet
Specialist
join:2004-10-18
Las Vegas, NV
| I use "Virtual Account Number" that provided by my Credit Card Company. Each number can only be used once. I have to update my credit card information every month in Lingo's web site. So if I cancel their service, they won't be able to charge any additional fee from me.
I think you guys can start doing it like me. Or just report you card stolen to get a new account number.
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RELAX, God is in Charge! |
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nightwalker
Nightwalker
join:1999-08-07
Appleton, WI
3 edits | reply to Robbob90210
Wow. I never realized how many cheap bastards used VOIP. We live in America, taxes are charged on almost everything. Why should VOIP be any different?
If you really want to go on tax debate, check out the amount of taxes charged for gasoline.
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»www.reverse.net |
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ceocio
join:2004-04-16
Columbus, OH
| reply to Robbob90210
No one is gonna die over a couple of bucks of course. For me,However,it's the wording in the letter rather than the rate increase itself that's really irritating. If the money they collected from end users are REALLY required by law, I believe no one is gonna say anything about it. But lingo may very well be pocketing the money...Charging something that they shouldn't be, and then blaming it on the government. That's disgusting. It's like raping a girl and then blaming Viagra for it! They really think customers are too stuipid to figure out who really want it?!
If that's not illegal, then there's really something wrong with the U.S. legal system. If voip companies can get away with charging such stupid regulatory recovery fees, I don't see why retaliers like wal-mart can't charge RRFs as well, hell, they are subject to more regulations than voip companies currently are.
Believe it or not, I saw this coming when providers like vonage and CV charged this and we consumers chose to do nothing...It'll be really funny one day these unregulated voip companies will charge almost the same taxes and fees as old telcos do, only they are pocketing the money themselves. And believe me, the day may just come real soon, when voip market is more consolidated and only a few providers remain to dominate the market. |
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caseydoug
join:2001-08-14
Seattle, WA
| reply to hkvalet
said by hkvalet :I think you guys can start doing it like me. Or just report you card stolen to get a new account number. You really don't need to go to such lengths. Just write your credit card company and withdraw authorization for Lingo to charge your account. It might even work simply to delete the credit card information from your profile on Lingo's site, but they may prevent deleting this information without substituting another valid card. |
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Sinclair42
join:2004-10-23
Florence, SC
| reply to Robbob90210
Doug
I don't think i would give them another card number.I am afraid they may charge it twice.I do know that taking the card off the customer information page looks like it is deleted , but they have copies on another database.I have changed my contact number and there is no trace of it anywhere on the page , but when i call tech support they always bring the old number back up.I gave up having T2 take it off 3 times and it reappears back in 24 hours.I guess the best way is to call , "as you said", your Credit card Co. and tell them not to accept any more debits from Lingo; that is after your paid up with them.
Lingo you really made a terrible move when you sent that email out!!!Things were looking up and you other VoIP Companies out there, people will now take notice from all the publicity of what they have to pay and what is required.They key word is "GREED" |
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Sinclair42
join:2004-10-23
Florence, SC | reply to Robbob90210
I am not sure if it's my server or not, but my emails to the executive office are all bouncing back.Does that mean that the server is full??They went through last night without a problem.......... |
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claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA
| reply to Robbob90210
Bottom line is that a "regulatory recovery fee" or "regulatory cost recovery fee" is not a tax. It is just a way to charge the customer directly for part of the cost of doing business. Nothing prevents a business from collecting and keeping any fees it wants from its customers.
This sleazy and deceptive business practice is unfortunately widespread--just about every telephone company and mobile phone carrier does it and, so far, gets away with it because it is a "small bite" and the very vast majority of their customers just go along with it. To the extent that this is used to to enable misleading advertising, where the advertised cost is lower than what you are actually charged, this should be illegal and people should complain to the FTC and state AGs and consumer protectin agencies. However, in most cases they are very careful to bury these fees in the tiny print at the bottom of the ads, and to generally cover their butt by mentioning that additional unspecified fees may be applied. People should complain loudly to the regulatory agencies AND TO THE MEDIA THAT CARRY THE ADS about the misleading ads. After all, it is in effect a bait and switch tactic. |
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Sinclair42
join:2004-10-23
Florence, SC
| I wish the Media would pick up on it..well i am sure they have with the amount of posters on the VoIP forum. Could make things worse by the Government getting involved, but when i did sign up i was told the fee would be what i was told, no more , no less..They enjoy changing rules mid stream.
Anyone have an estimate on how many customers Lingo has? I know that Vonage's numbers were posted several months ago. |
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MikeSH
@comcast.net
| reply to Sinclair42
Sinclair42 -- My emails on Friday and Saturday went okay, but are bouncing today.
Keep sending the emails!
Idea -- Pick another VOIP provider and port your Lingo number; change to the lowest cost Lingo plan, foward calls from Lingo to the new service until LNP takes effect; deny Lingo the abiltiy to charge your CC; cancel Lingo after LNP and send back the Lingo box in "Lingo Time" (abt 2 months). |
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vonsen
Just Because
Premium
join:2005-01-06
| More Primus (Lingo) V.P.s
said by MikeSH:
Sinclair42 -- My emails on Friday and Saturday went okay, but are bouncing today. Keep sending the emails!
I suppose it is wishful thinking to think that the lingo mailboxes might be full with complaints already. If your emails bounce, I would encourage you to try again the next day & here are some more Primus (Lingo) V.P.'s if you want to email your opinion to them instead.
Stephen McIntyre, V.P. <smcintyre@primustel.com>
Ambuj Nayar, V.P. <anayar@primustel.com>
Tracy Lawson, V.P. <tlawson@primustel.com>
Mark Guirgis, V.P. <mguirgis@primustel.com>
John Melick, V.P. <jmelick@primustel.com>
Jay Rosenblatt, V.P. <jrosenblatt@primustel.com>
Geoffrey K. Hicks, V.P. <ghicks@primustel.com>
Mike Magill, Senior Director Sales NA <mmagill@primustel.com> |
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Gericurlswrl
join:2003-05-02
Franklin, OH
| reply to nightwalker
Re: [Lingo] is going to charge Excise and Reg Tax
said by nightwalker :Wow. I never realized how many cheap bastards used VOIP. We live in America, taxes are charged on almost everything. Why should VOIP be any different? If you really want to go on tax debate, check out the amount of taxes charged for gasoline. The main difference between the gasoline taxes you refer to and the VoIP federal excise tax we are referring to is obvious. Gas tax is required by state and federal government. Each state has different rates.
As far as VoIP goes, the IRS has not made any type of request or law stating that VoIP providers must charge this fee. To volunatrily charge customers this fee is insulting, among other terms that come to mind.
But since we live in America, I suppose we should all be charged taxes on everything and not question it. |
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Sinclair42
join:2004-10-23
Florence, SC | Thanks Gericurlswrl i couldn't have said it any clearer........... |
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bbrlogue
Learning New Things Daily
Premium
join:2003-12-07
Alexandria, VA
| reply to Robbob90210
I don't recall the same heated reactions when Vonage started charging $1.50 Regulatory Recovery Fee last summer (or maybe I missed it). I have both Vonage and Lingo and wish they didn't charge that fee. If the total cost became too much for me, I would cancel and switch provider, but for now, Lingo is still a good value for me.
I applaud efforts to get Lingo to repeal that fee. However, I don't see them reverting. |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH
 ·callwithus
·Axvoice
1 edit | 'Nothing stays the same.'
Voip providers are being manipulated to paying the 3% and the $1.50 per did fees by their providers, or have been advised of future charges. The voip provider is going to pass the expense to the subscriber one way or the other.
Lingo has decided to pass it on as stated.
The fact is that you will be paying it in one form or another. Sunrocket has gambled in just including it in their cost, but who knows what will happen next year. The only thing I count on is that once a gov't entity is used to collecting a tax or fee, they will go to great efforts to keep collecting it from someone, and the bottom line ends with the subscriber. |
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