Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| I agree with the PUC
All VoIP should be under state regulation by the PUC. That is so that the consumer will be protected. I don't believe that VoIP should be allowed unless it is carrier class and Vonage certainly is not nor is the lousy VoIP that Time Warner is getting ready to offer in Hawaii. With proper PUC regulation required these companies would be forced to have carrier class VoIP and that would mean it would be safe to get rid of your land line. The way is now, you must retain your land line for lifeline services. Time Warner is too lazy to commit to fixing their network for backup purposes yet they hope to help Verizon as the local carrier to go into fast oblivion. Then what? No one has life line services. If VoIP is regulated and required to be carrier class then the public benefits because we will have orderly plan for the transition from land line to VoIP.
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The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789 |
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authagent
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Fenton, MO
| There is a lot that I don't understand about your post:
1. How do you propose defining what VOIP products are carrier class?
2. Would a company not do something because it is lazy? Anyways you are talking about them "fixing their network for backup purposes." I can personally guarantee you that Time Warner's network does not consist of all their routers daisy chained in one big circle. They didn't use DC electricity as the model for their network. What can and will fail is the last mile... just like a tree can fall on the phone line to your house, your last mile cable connection could be cut.
3. You keep mentioning lifeline, lifeline provides people low income families with discounted phone rates. If this applies to you, then you shouldn't be concerned with VOIP anyways, let people with some free cash Beta Test this stuff. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
1 edit | Lifeline is not just for low income. Everyone who has a landline telephone has LIFELINE SERVICE. There is a program for low income persons so that they can afford to have a land line telephone which provides LIFELINE services. (Since VoIP is advertised as cheaper than a landline why would you think low income folks would not want it or shouldn't have it? I don't understand your comment.
Lifeline services in the eyes of the PUC means that a phone company offering carrier class service (which is what your local landline company offers) will meet the requirements of the PUC for emergency/lifeline service. That includes backup and real 911 service. Time Warner (unlike some other cable operators) has chosen to not offer carrier level service because they don't want to either use a battery backup modem or better yet fix the infrastructure of the network so that backup service is provided in that manner. Of course, this would require a huge investment on the part of TW but this would be the responsible way to go and is what some cable companies are choosing to do. Time Warner is on record saying that they were going to do this until they did a survey and found out that their customers don't care about lifeline services! I suspect that is mostly because they don't understand the issues.
911 as offered by Vonage currently is a joke. Currently, 911 with Vonage doesn't work at all if your cable goes down or the power goes off as there is no backup....not even a four hour battery as a part of the modem. Oceanic TW has chosen to not offer a battery modem although I believe a few TW franchises do offer that.
911 through Vonage also currently requires that the caller be able to speak their location and the call goes to who knows where but certainly not the local police station where landline 911 calls go. 911E which Vonage is offering now in one state, will locate the caller without the need to speak the location. That is an improvement. If a small child is the only one in the house in an emergency and calls 911 Vonage and can't tell the operator the address then the parent who just had a stroke and can't move or talk has a greatly increased risk of dying or never fully recovering as compared to if regular 911 was available. Same if a person who is alone, falls and is injured and almost unconscious but they manage to reach the phone and press 911 and then pass out. They will not receive 911 lifeline services because Vonage 911 doesn't know where they are.
911E will allow for location of the caller to determined without the need to speak the location. However, that is still a far cry from traditional landline 911 as the call goes to some service center in another state frequently and there have been instances of babies dying, etc. because the 911 operator didn't know where the location was and rerouted the call to the wrong 911 center. In Hawaii, the call will probably go to a center on the Mainland. I can just see those operators misunderstanding Hawaiian street names, or someone says they are in Kamuela but the call center has only Waimea as the town name. (It's both..Kamuela to the USPS and Waimea to most everyone else). Or the operator thinks the person is on Maui when they are on the Big Island, etc.
These problems occur on a much less frequent basis (if at all) when the 911 lifeline call goes over the PUC approved and regulated carrier class service. The call goes to the local police station and even if there are no snafus in the rerouting of the calls on VoIP 911 like Vonage precious seconds go by before an ambulance, fire truck, etc. are dispatched and those seconds can mean the difference between life and death or being paralyzed for life instead of being whole and healthy or dying from a heart attack or recovering.
Vonage and TW VoIP are second line services only and you need to keep your landline. Some say that cell phones will work as a substitute for the landline. Well, the electricity goes off...your landline probably still works but cell and VoIP without some type of backup won't work. TW has admitted to me that their service is intended as second line only and only in areas where the electricity is highly reliable. That certainly cuts out most areas of Hawaii. My concern is that most customers don't understand Lifeline services and the dangers in getting VoIP if they don't keep the landline also. Plus, I suspect Oceanic has no intention of educating people especially in the enticing ads they will probably have. So, a lot of people will go to this service and that puts nails in the coffin of Verizon our local landline carrier. Verizon is required by the PUC to have emergency backup. That should be required of VoIP which in the not too distant future will displace traditional landline service. (This is why Verizon has sold Verizon Hawaii to Carlyle pending PUC approval).
VoIP is intended to displace the local traditional phone company. Thus, it should be regulated from the beginning by the PUC just as the local landline is regulated. Low income folks should be eligible for it under some subsidized plan because in the not so distance future there won't be a local landline phone company for them to use! Proper planning for the transition should begin now.
Edited to answer your question about how I would propose defining what VOIP products are carrier class. That is already done by the PUC in your state. Hawaii's Standards for Telephone Service as put forth by the PUC can be read here. »www.hawaii.gov/budget/adminrules/DBFGO8.pdf
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The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789 |
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authagent
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Fenton, MO
| Why would your cell phone not work if there was a power outage? Both cell phone's and POTS lines need electricity to run, and both have battery backups at the central office, and at the towers for cell phones.
What you are calling a lifeline is a POTS line. Please send me links showing anyone using the word lifeline to describe your twisted pair connection to the PSTN. In the telco industry Lifeline refers to special pricing for the low income crowd. If you want I can show you 100's of links proving that.
Where do you get your information that "VoIP is intended to displace the local traditional phone company." ????
You have no idea what you are talking about. The big telcos will be the biggest players in VoIP, and the vonages of the world will just be a blip on the radar. Sure the telcos will have to compete with cable companies now for residential customers, and perhaps business customers in the future.
Basically like Duke is Duke, VoIP is VoIP. No end of companies. No babies dying. No cell phones not working when electricity goes out. No making carrier class rules. No calling POTS lines, lifelines.... Thank you. |
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majorbludd
join:2005-01-09
Columbia, MO
1 edit | reply to Mele20
That was without a doubt the most brutal post ever. |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to authagent
Here in Hawaii we refer to POTS also as lifeline service. Because that is what 911 from a landline is! I have read a lot of articles on the internet talking about Mainland 911 and in our newspapers in Hawaii and they frequently refer to 911 landline as lifeline services to distingush that kind of 911 from the pathetic 911 that is not real 911 but is offered by Vonage, TW, etc.
BTW, the service for extremely poor persons is not available to low income persons as I am low income and cannot get it. Only those with incomes below $10,000 a year are eligible. I have not checked in the last several years but I don't believe the Hawaii legislature has ever changed the rule although there has been talk about the limit being way too low especially in Hawaii with the very high cost of living. I used to be able to get it but there is no adjustment for the slight yearly increase in disability benefits that I get from Social Security Disability and so I am above the limit now but still low income. It started out many years ago at the $10,000 limit and that was realistic limit then. Today it is mostly a joke as frequently those below that limit are living in tents or on the streets and don't have a way to have a phone.
Verizon Hawaii is being sold to Carlyle simply because Verizon wants out of the landline business as that is dying. That is what I have read in our news media repeatedly. Hawaii needs tremendous upgrade of the lines and Verizon didn't want to put the necessary money into the upgrading. The Consumer Advocate has forced Carlyle to make a number of concessions and now approves of the sale. But many residents, observers and persons in the telco business think Hawaii will now be left far behind as far as technology goes and also that Carlyle is not going to do a thing about the DSL situation here. I live in the second largest city in the state and I cannot get DSL. Carlyle is only looking out for their investors and will probably sell in a few years. I, like many here, am opposed to this sale particularly to Carlyle.
As for cell phones, they can't be used in a lot of areas here and they go out frequently also when the electricity goes off I am told by people who have them. Plus, 911 from a cell phone is not true 911.
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The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789 |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to majorbludd
said by majorbludd  :That was without a doubt the most brutal post ever. Eh? |
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authagent
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Fenton, MO | reply to Mele20
that sucks that you can't get DSL. Do you use dial up? |
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