bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
| [TWC] cable (DOCSIS 3.0) vs verizon (DSL,, FIOS)
I have been reading recently that the upcoming cable standard will be docsis 3.0 which will be capable of speeds of 200+ mbps down and 100 mbps up, presently it is docsis 1.1 with what I am seeing 10 mbps down and 1/2 mbps up.
DSL is offering 3 mbps down, 768 mbps up
FIOS is supposed to have the capacity for 40 (G)bps from what I read but I see that the current top speed that they are offering is 30 mbps down and 5 mbps up.
I see one problem with FIOS in very large congested cities like N.Y.C. it is going to be very, very expensive and very time consuming to run a dedicated fiber line to every singe house or apartment in the city. Or perhaps are they going to change their plans for large cities to some kind of HFC (Hybrid/Fiber/Coax) design where they run fiber to a central point (NODE) and branch out from there with COAX?
can anybody elaborate on this and tell us when everything settles what will actually be each of these companies to speeds and why they will be what they are? |
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Nymostwanted
Who Cares?
Premium
join:2004-06-25
New York, NY
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| Re: [TWC] cable (DOCSIS 3.0) vs verizon (DSL,, FIO
Here it goes.. I understand that FIOS is capable of 40 GBPS, and with Docsis 3.0, cable would be able to reach speeds of up to 200 MBPS, but people, let us not lie to ourselves. The companies have the power to provision us at those speeds, but they are not crazy! Imagine everyone in NYC at 40 GBPS, downloading on BT, Limewire, IRC. Verizon can't handle that network! They cannot even handle 3.0/768. Imagine, RR at 200 MBPS during peak times! Not a nice sight. I am a Verizon Online DSL subscriber, and I know they have the power to these speeds, but their network might not handle it. We must stop deciding which broadband service is the best, as all of them have their ups and downs. ( Maybe except Fiber  )
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Can You Hear Me Now? Good! |
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marcin5417
join:2004-07-23
Brooklyn, NY
| reply to bs259
First off, DSL does not offer 768mbps up. If youre talking about max for DSL its 8 down and 1 up (for adsl i believe).
Second off, Im no FIOS expert, but it makes more sense that they would branch out from a central point like you said, the 40gbps would probabily mean that just like a T3 line, Verizon will be able to share that 40gbps within a set number of people. That would make sense. |
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RichieG
join:1999-12-09
Little Neck, NY
1 edit | reply to bs259
Just remember that all these technologies are constantly evolving. I remember about 13 years ago when I got my first 9600 baud modem and thought it was "fast" - then they came out with the 14.4 and it was like WOW! We are all spoiled now with the high speeds we get, and we still want more and more! |
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gamepro100
join:2004-07-27
Brooklyn, NY | The biggest issue with FIOS and New York City is getting it into apartment buildings(apartment owners make up a massive chunk of NYC residents). |
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pawelp
join:2004-12-07
Ridgewood, NY
| reply to bs259
I agree with you gamepro100. I live in a condominium, and I knew that our building has copper wires. But with the ongoing talk about FIOS I've decided to ask my supervisor if this building is planning on using fiber optics and in fact.
They're already wiring it up with fiber optics. The whole complex will be ready sometime in 2005.
When FIOS is available here, there won't be any trouble with my building, I dont think at least. We'll see  |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
1 edit | reply to Nymostwanted
lets remember that in nyc time warner is using a hfc system (the longest fiber run is supposed to be 18 miles max. from headend to node) where the maximum # of subscribers per node is supposed to be 1500 to 2000 give or take and the maximum # of cable modems on each node be it: (road runner, earthlink, aol, nyc connect, etc) can be 400 split into 2 different upload freqencies give or take, so regardless of how many people are surfing at any given time there shouldnt be too much of a slowdown. my real question here was can we get correct answers to what each company will offer or is projected to offer when their latest technology is available, i look at fios and i say if they are running fiber to everybody they should not have any issues with slowdowns and they should have any reason to limit their speed other than what present technology can keep up with. |
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Nymostwanted
Who Cares?
Premium
join:2004-06-25
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| Bs259, you are correct. Once DSL can deal with the loop issue, things would get better. Once Verizon is able to maintain a network, things would get better. I am not lying to you when I say this.. One day, in the far far future, DSl would be like dial up to people. Everyone might be able to get 1 GBPS for like 40 bucks. I would have loved to live in that time. Around in the year 2750-3000. Right now, we are seeing technology fight technology. Cable is going after DSl, and Fiber optics is going after cable. ISDN is going after dial up and such.The company with more money will win. Verizon is limiting themselves. Us people that are around 150 ft from the Co, should be getting 8 mbps and 1 mps up! Verizon, don't be scared! I must say, many companies out there are limiting themselves. Take Surewest. They're not that big but the supply " fiber". 10 MBPS is not fiber. 10 MBPS is OOL.
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Can You Hear Me Now? Good! |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
| reply to bs259
Re: [TWC] cable (DOCSIS 3.0) vs verizon (DSL,, FIOS)
please see this topic thread just to look at a picture of the fios connection:
»My FIOS install
now my question, how is fios going to send back their data there needs to be 2 fibers i only see 1 and that 1 is going to have to be used for receiving signal how are they going to send signal back, fiber is not capable of send and receive, unless they have come up with some kind of laser which is capable sending and receiving?
the twc node has 2 active fibers inside and 4 spairs, the 4 spairs are used in case the 2 actives go bad, the actives are used this way. 1 to receive signal from the headend, the other to transmit signal to the headend. |
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Woof Woof
I Miss Brother Iz
join:2004-09-01
Keller, TX
| A single optical fiber is bidirectional. You don't need two. They use passive optical splitters, think of them as prisms, to split the incoming and outgoing signals at each end of the fiber. The fiber is also split at the street where one fiber from the CO is split into a max of 32 fibers to feed each home using a passive (non-powered) optical splitter/combiner.
They also send multiple "colors" of light down and back on the fiber, so video is carried on one frequency, data to the home on another, and data from the home on yet another.
Each color of light can carry the equivilant to what a single coax can carry, so fiber has significant advantages over coax and twisted pair copper. |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
1 edit | reply to bs259
i understand that fiber is of course the best available choice, but even so i had always been informed that yes a fiber is capable of sending and receiving but only 1 at a time it isnt capable of sending and receiving at the same time.
for instance i understand that they are going to be sending cable sig through fios sometime in the near future, if they do this they cant switch, it would have to be a continuous forward fiber |
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rrneteng
Piedmont Triad Region
join:2004-08-06
united state
| reply to bs259
Re: [TWC] cable (DOCSIS 3.0) vs verizon (DSL,, FIO
Lets keep in mind that most cable providers still havent commited to Docsis 2.0 yet. This is quite an undertaking. However as far as I know TWC is attempted to get everything 2.0 compliant now because of the benifits of QOS scheduling and how that will help the digital phone service.
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don't make me use uppercase... |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
| my understanding is they are going to just bypass docsis 2.0 and go right to 3.0 when available since 2.0 doesnt give too much better performance compared to doscis 1.1 , and they are in no rush also since dsl will not be able to keep up with the present docsis 1.1 speed |
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drumz8
join:2003-03-28
Westminster, MD
| reply to bs259
One thing to keep in mind: These high speed broadband connections are great, but are the services you are connecting to (amazon, your bank, etc.) really going to run at those speeds? Probably not. Once you hit a reasonable speed, going faster buys you nothing (excluding of course bit torrent downloads with people on similar high speed lines). |
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AJ023
join:2001-12-25
Forest Hills, NY
| reply to pawelp
pawelp: Usuaully the buildings can be upgraded by FREE to fiber if they sign an agreement. RCN did the wiring in our building to fiber to the basement and new copper to the building.
I would like to have Verizon available as well and if Verizon put in their own fiber pipes I would make the switch.
Right now we have copper phone lines, RCN, and Time Warner. Each is over seperate wires in the building. This is a housing cooperative. My building would not pay for wiring due to tenants not willing to pay for such. So we could be stuck on RCN if there is an exclusive agreement.
Im still waiting for Verizon to come into the area so I would find out if my building had a chance at getting Verizon FIOS. |
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Woof Woof
I Miss Brother Iz
join:2004-09-01
Keller, TX
| reply to bs259
Re: [TWC] cable (DOCSIS 3.0) vs verizon (DSL,, FIOS)
bs259, you really have to change your thinking about fiber. It does NOT work the way you think it does.
It is bi-directional. It is Full-duplex. In its current incarnation, you have to think of it as 3 completely isolated data channels.
They can send a full cable spectrum of video channels over one wavelength of light down the fiber (200 digital cable channels). They can send 622Mbit of data down the fiber using another wavelength of light, and they can get back 155Mbit of data on yet another wavelength of light from the homes connected to one strand of fiber.... ALL AT THE SAME TIME. |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY
1 edit | woof
now you are right about some things, yes fiber is bi-directional, yes they can send more than 1 signal at a time.
now im 99% sure of this so here it is, you cant send and receive light at the same time at the same time regardless of what color light you are sending and or receiving. all that will happen is the light will hit eachother and cause problems for the other, all fiber is, is a very thin piece of glass, there are no separate channels in it to make sure one part gets this and another gets that. if you know something i dont please let me know.
also there would have to be a seperate transmitter and receciever??? |
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iknowaboutfiber
@verizon.ne
| bs259 you have no clue how fiber works apparently, I'd recommend taking a course on it. Each wavelength of light is measured in NANOMETERS and the wavelenths travel parallel to each other. The different colors of light DO make a difference as far as what you can send and receive down the fiber. The technology is well-developed so as to compensate for dispersion. If fiber can't send and receive at the same time, how do you think that long distance phone call you make gets connected? Its traveling down the SAME strand of fiber and you can hear and speak at the same time, its not like old walkie talkies. Read the latest information written in 2004 about fiber optics before you post that you are 99% sure otherwise you just sound dumb. |
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bs259
Premium
join:2000-08-19
Little Neck, NY | well if one of you fiber geniouses knows of a site that has information about how a it is possible to send and receive signal at the same time, on the same fiber please send me a link |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to bs259
Top residential speed Fios will offer is 15Mbps, 30Mbps right now is a more expensive ($150+) business tier.
I wouldn't get too hyped up on Fios, honestly. Other than a few scattered trials, it's not in wide deployment yet. And despite Verizon's optimistic press releases, it's not going to be widespread for at least half a decade.
They are deploying it, but at $1,200 per home install, it's a cherry picking operation. |
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