Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY | Progress???
That's it, don't allow your community to advance into the 21st Century. |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| said by Midak  :That's it, don't allow your community to advance into the 21st Century. How about the private companies bring the town into the 21st century? They have Cox and Bellsouth already...which brings them both Cable and DSL...sounds like a lot of the rest of the United States and Canada. How are they behind exactly?
Further, I think it's dangerous when a municipal utility gets involved in an entertainment service. It doesn't foster fair competition, because their pricing can and probably will be predatory since operating costs can be fortified with muni bonds and tax dollars before becoming self-sustaining. In the meantime, the cableco's and telco's cannot effectively compete. Eventually, a monopoly that is government-run can be created and then there will be NO competition. |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| reply to Midak
"Neal Breakfield, an engineer in the oil industry says, "When you get down to it, the only thing that people need when it comes to fiber is fiber in their diet. Nobody needs a fiber optic system, people need good telecommunications services."
So you have an engineer in the OIL INDUSTRY head up your citizens group against fiber.
And take a look at this winners picture...
They shouldn't have fiber, these people are WAY too smart for fiber.
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Abit VP-6 twin 800EB's @ 1002 Mhz.Proud member of the XDC. |
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MonkeyPox4
join:2004-12-21
Lafayette, LA | I LIVE in Lafayette, that Breakfield guy is a douchebag. Plus, it looks like he combed his hair with his foot. I, for one, would LOVE a fiber loop in my neighborhood. I would gladly tell Bellsouth to go take a flying leap. |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | reply to Wills
Well, I can't argue with that... fiber IS pretty much worthless without good telecommunications services  |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| reply to Wills
dumbass |
said by Neal Breakfield:
Nobody needs a fiber optic system, people need good telecommunications services.
I thought that was really funny! 
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/sbin/shutdown -h now |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| reply to hailinfantry
there are monopolies of private companies now that were created by the FCC in the name of privation and it is all bullshit. the only areas they wire are those with large populations while ignoring parts of states and cities they don't see a large enough profit margin. they block cities from covering outlying communities by the same tired old argument that it will mean higher taxes. they raise prices at will... I think it's time the government got involved. |
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amenite
The Soylent - It's People
Premium
join:2002-11-21
Ridgewood, NJ
clubs: | reply to pcscdma
Alright then. |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| reply to hailinfantry
What you fail to understand is that setting up a municipal network is not the same as getting into content business/entertainment business.
What you also don't understand is that when such thing is set up you set and environment that is healthy for competition from multiple content providers. |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
 ·Charter Pipeline
| reply to MonkeyPox4
said by MonkeyPox4 :I LIVE in Lafayette, that Breakfield guy is a douchebag. Plus, it looks like he combed his hair with his foot. I, for one, would LOVE a fiber loop in my neighborhood. I would gladly tell Bellsouth to go take a flying leap. I used to live in Lafayette, sadly I moved. I support this plan. You're right, Breakfield IS a douchebag. I may consider going back to Lafayette (due to work) so hpefully they approve this.
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Carl Smith, formerly known as crstec. |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| reply to ppcpunk
said by ppcpunk :What you fail to understand is that setting up a municipal network is not the same as getting into content business/entertainment business. What you also don't understand is that when such thing is set up you set and environment that is healthy for competition from multiple content providers. Not if you consistently undercut and undermine the competition.
Ever study economics? Heard of capitalism? |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| reply to hailinfantry
said by hailinfantry :How about the private companies bring the town into the 21st century? They aren't. That's the whole point of this.
said by hailinfantry :It doesn't foster fair competition, because their pricing can and probably will be predatory since operating costs can be fortified with muni bonds and tax dollars before becoming self-sustaining. Stop right there. Did I hear those nasty words 'tax dollars'?
Bad.
There are corporate bonds too ya know.
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/sbin/shutdown -h now |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| said by pcscdma : said by hailinfantry :How about the private companies bring the town into the 21st century? They aren't. That's the whole point of this. How is this town behind other towns with similar demographics? They have access to at least 3Mbps DSL (in areas that have the loop requirement met) and Cable. The coverage wouldn't be much better in a muni system as they'd have to make the investment to hang and bury the fiber...not to mention light it all. |
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flushls
join:2004-11-02
Joyce, WA | reply to pcscdma
and all this time I thought M. Powell said that.
FLMAO |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| reply to hailinfantry
I don't see a need for competition between various companies trying to provide a wire to my house for services.
Why not one wire that can deliver all the services? Why not do it once and let all the companies play on an equal field?
Yes if taking out the fact a private company will make less money because they don't get to use the public rights of way to setup their own private networks to be able to charge us whatever they want and only upgrade services when they absolutely have to well then yeah that's "undermining and undercutting the competition."
But then I wonder why it is we have municipal airports? You think those are a bad idea too? |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| said by ppcpunk :I don't see a need for competition between various companies trying to provide a wire to my house for services. Why not one wire that can deliver all the services? Why not do it once and let all the companies play on an equal field? Yes if taking out the fact a private company will make less money because they don't get to use the public rights of way to setup their own private networks to be able to charge us whatever they want and only upgrade services when they absolutely have to well then yeah that's "undermining and undercutting the competition." But then I wonder why it is we have municipal airports? You think those are a bad idea too? Explain how a municipal airport is the same as residential web access, then we can talk.
Further, no company wants to share "one wire." Is that what you think a muni is? The muni's fiber is for the MUNI ALONE. It isn't throwing them up so it can share them with the incumbents.
Are you not understanding what we're talking about? |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| You don't understand the analogy. You say show you how web access is like an airport. I submit to you that it is not and never claimed that it was, which is in fact the whole point.
The municipally ran network is used by private companies such as whoever your local bell is or companies like earthlink, speakeasy, AOL, so on and so forth.
When you say web access you need a company to get you onto the web - just having a network all over your town won't get you anywhere except all over town - not on the world wide web. Just like having an airport for a city won't get you anywhere if you don't have private companies giving you airplane access to fly anywhere.
And you are just dead wrong about companies not wanting to share one wire - It happens right now with dial up access and dsl access and land line service and even going to be more the case when IPTV goes into service over the ILEC networks.
Also it happens RIGHT now in places where they have municipal fiber places like grant county »www.gcpud.org/zipp/providers.htm where they have all these companies you say don't want to share one wire, providing many different high speed providers, two cable tv providers, three telephone providers, and two other providers for what looks to be some kind of security service.
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| Those companies in the link you provided are locals and really don't compare to the incumbents such as Comcast, TWC, Charter et al. And do you honestly think any of those will want to share infrastructure with Verizon and the other ILEC's?
The municipal networks are being built to COMPETE WITH THE INCUMBANTS, not give them a happy free network to play around with. Did someone beat you silly today or something? |
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ppcpunk
join:2001-02-11
Davenport, IA
| Do I honestly think any what company will want to share what infrastructure with Verizon?
Do I think any company will want to share fiber to your house with verizon - a company like say AOL? Uhhh yes? Why not? You can choose to not make any money or you can choose to make money... I don't understand what you are saying.
Municipal networks are not built to compete with - they are built and they happen to compete with - if those companies like TWC/Comcast/whoever want to get on the network and provide service I highly doubt the muni would decline to have more competition.
The network is there to provide a network for private companies to provider services - not to make tons of money on over priced cable tv. |
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hailinfantry
Bizarro Quinn
Premium
join:2004-01-18
Brooklyn, NY
| said by ppcpunk :Do I honestly think any what company will want to share what infrastructure with Verizon? Do I think any company will want to share fiber to your house with verizon - a company like say AOL? Uhhh yes? Why not? You can choose to not make any money or you can choose to make money... I don't understand what you are saying. Municipal networks are not built to compete with - they are built and they happen to compete with - if those companies like TWC/Comcast/whoever want to get on the network and provide service I highly doubt the muni would decline to have more competition. The network is there to provide a network for private companies to provider services - not to make tons of money on over priced cable tv. This is coming from you, not them though. AOL and Comcast are two VERY different entities with two VERY different products. There are plenty of ISP's that love to share bandwidth. The big boys (who 95% of the time will be the incumbants) want their own networks, and they want them to themselves. The muni thus provides the infrastructure and the service (as it has in 75%+ of all buildouts thus far) and provides a pricing structure that is predatory to the incumbants. |
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