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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TheWickerMan
Re: Crap is crap
said by TheWickerMan  :So, if you unknowingly install a defective lock on your house, and I know how to exploit its vulnerability, then it's OK for me to walk in, right? Nope! But is says a whole lot about your intelligence, and your ability to choose a good lock! Ignorance, laysiness, and carelessness. in my opinion, is NO EXCUSE for bad choices!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
1 edit | reply to TamaraB
said by TamaraB : No, this is different! This is a break-in not a public invite. No one picks any locks in a drive-by infection, or in a virus infection, those are "invitations" not "break-ins"; no passwords have been hacked, the site or email only makes use of the available PUBLIC services which you, your browser, or mail client allows and advertises. No one picks your lock if you share your files via netbios to the world, or if you automatically execute an install program... you have invited them in they did not break in! Perhaps your angst is mis-directed? It's not the scammers, spammers, phishers, or hackers who are the problem (these folks have been around for thousands of years); perhaps it's the fault of the defective toys you have chosen to use? Perhaps you use them without reading or heading the warnings? Whatever the case, it's no-body's fault but your own 99% of the time! What I see and read here is way too much anger and frustration directed towards those who use publicly available services offered up freely by users; and NO anger directed towards those manufacturers who build-in these "features" in the first place. The manufacturer, who sells a product, which invites and allows un-attended installations is the one who should bear the brunt of the anger and blame. I have NEVER had a trojan, worm, virus, spyware, or any form of maleware on ANY of my computers, and I have been on the net since 1985! OK, whatever.
So, if you unknowingly install a defective lock on your house, and I know how to exploit its vulnerability, then it's OK for me to walk in, right? | |
TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TheWickerMan
said by TheWickerMan :By your logic, if your house is on a public street, I have every right to walk right in... Keep the door open and hang a sign saying "free food inside" and YES anyone has a right to walk in and take you up on the offer. This is what you do when you advertise a service on the public network, and allow anyone to access it. Use a browser, or other program, which invites and allows open software installs, and you are saying fill-er-up, I want it!
said by TheWickerMan :And even if I have to pick your locks to get in, it's your fault because you didn't secure it well enough. No, this is different! This is a break-in not a public invite. No one picks any locks in a drive-by infection, or in a virus infection, those are "invitations" not "break-ins"; no passwords have been hacked, the site or email only makes use of the available PUBLIC services which you, your browser, or mail client allows and advertises.
No one picks your lock if you share your files via netbios to the world, or if you automatically execute an install program... you have invited them in they did not break in!
Perhaps your angst is mis-directed? It's not the scammers, spammers, phishers, or hackers who are the problem (these folks have been around for thousands of years); perhaps it's the fault of the defective toys you have chosen to use? Perhaps you use them without reading or heading the warnings? Whatever the case, it's no-body's fault but your own 99% of the time!
What I see and read here is way too much anger and frustration directed towards those who use publicly available services offered up freely by users; and NO anger directed towards those manufacturers who build-in these "features" in the first place. The manufacturer, who sells a product, which invites and allows un-attended installations is the one who should bear the brunt of the anger and blame.
I have NEVER had a trojan, worm, virus, spyware, or any form of maleware on ANY of my computers, and I have been on the net since 1985!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to TamaraB
said by TamaraB : The Internet is NOT your private home, it's a VERY public and open area. The internet is not my private home, but my computer is. Quit confusing the two.
By your logic, if your house is on a public street, I have every right to walk right in if I want. And even if I have to pick your locks to get in, it's your fault because you didn't secure it well enough. | |
TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TheWickerMan
said by TheWickerMan : And I suppose blaming the victim, as you're doing, is not childish? If I leave me front door unlocked..... If you publicly advertise a computer service on let's say ports 445 and 137 or 139 for instance, it means you are inviting their use by the public. The Internet is a PUBLIC space, unlike your home which is a PRIVATE space.
If you run an anonymous FTP server, you have no basis to complain if someone uses it. If you run an MTA on port 25, you can't complain about it's public use; it is YOUR responsibility and no one Else's, to advertise only the services YOU want used publicly.
If you surf to a website with a program which will vacuum up any and all malware, it is YOU who have invited it in by doing so! If you run an open SMTP server, you have invited spammers to use it, if you run an open ANYTHING, it will be used because you have invited it's use. The Internet is NOT your private home, it's a VERY public and open area.
I am not blaming the victims for anything, there are no victims here, only public users of a public space; each one directly responsible for their own actions.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to TamaraB
said by TamaraB : said by Vvian Kalyss :Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part. The use or non-use of faulty software which allows "drive-by-downloads" is the computer owner's choice. Use un-patched and defective programs, use those free screen-savers, visit those porn sites, and you consent to whatever they happen to do to you. To scream foul when something unpleasant happens as a result of your own actions (or lack of actions) is childish. Bob And I suppose blaming the victim, as you're doing, is not childish?
If I leave me front door unlocked, that does not make it OK for someone to come in and rob me. The cops might tell me I'm stupid for leaving it unlocked, but they're still going to arrest the guy who robbed me, if they catch him. But by your logic, someone who leaves his door unlocked "consented" to being robbed.
I suppose that a woman who wears revealing attire is "consenting" to be raped. | |
Unregistered user
@clients.speedfactory
| reply to TamaraB
If I forget to lock my door, am I responsible if a burglar comes in and steals everything? It's true that I did a stupid thing, but to say that I bear full responsibility is absurd.
Now, if the burglar takes up residence in my house, invites some of his friends, and uses it as a base of operations to commit more crimes, and someone informs me that it's happening, then it's my responsibility to evict him, just as it's my responsibility to clean my system of viruses when I'm notified it's infected.
I do think that Internet users need to educate themselves to the dangers out there. That's my biggest complaint: people who don't even take the time to gain the most basic understanding of how the Internet works and its inherent risks. | |
TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Vvian Kalyss
said by Vvian Kalyss :Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part. The use or non-use of faulty software which allows "drive-by-downloads" is the computer owner's choice. Use un-patched and defective programs, use those free screen-savers, visit those porn sites, and you consent to whatever they happen to do to you.
To scream foul when something unpleasant happens as a result of your own actions (or lack of actions) is childish.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| reply to fretlessp
Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part.
I shouldn't be FORCED to install numerous safeguards, change my browsing habits, what browser to use, what not to click, what not to download, yadda yadda -- in short, tailor my computing time around THEM -- just because some ethically-challenged salescum decides that he'll push a "free demo" of his "product" onto whatever PCs that aren't "protected".
Of course, you have a point too -- clueless users should STOP DOWNLOADING "free" software that is bundled with crap, dammit. There are plenty of no-catches-included freeware and open-source software that doesn't come bundled with shit. Software from the internet is not like getting junk from TV shopping -- you CAN get some things for FREE that don't need to be ad-supported (because explaining the difference between honest adware and spyware is much too difficult -- another reason why honest vendors should WANT to distance themselves from spyware and keep the 'adware' tag clean).
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
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