exocet_cm
Signal 26's Rock
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:   | Crap is crap
No way do I want something on my computer without my consent, PERIOD. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by exocet_cm  :No way do I want something on my computer without my consent, PERIOD. Then simply take the measures required to not install the crap in the first place. Seems if you don't want something, you just don't install it, yes?
Better than making more laws to make some form of software illegal... We don't need more laws! Stop installing this crap on your PC and it won't affect you; a simpleton should be able to do that much.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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fretlessp
join:2004-12-09
Hagerstown, MD
| I could not agree more. I never seem to have a problem with viruses or spy ware and I have been on the net for well over 9 years. I simply don't install junk, nor do I go to websites of questionable origin. I work in the industry and it amazes me how many clients have "free wallpapers, screen savers, and weather bug or other garbage software installed on their PCs. There is a price for everything in this world and if only more people would learn that, there would be considerably less users that have problems with their machines. Then again I will gladly continue to go onsite to remove the garbage from their PCs and bill them $85.00 and hr to do so. In a sense it gives me job security. As far as spy ware and popups I feel a good way to try to regulate the issue is to fine the companies who are doing the advertising. The reasons the ads pop up are to generate revenue and maybe if the companies that solicit people of questionable origin to advertise for them should have to pay the piper. |
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TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to TamaraB
said by TamaraB : said by exocet_cm :No way do I want something on my computer without my consent, PERIOD. Then simply take the measures required to not install the crap in the first place. Seems if you don't want something, you just don't install it, yes? I think you missed the part about "without my consent." |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| reply to fretlessp
Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part.
I shouldn't be FORCED to install numerous safeguards, change my browsing habits, what browser to use, what not to click, what not to download, yadda yadda -- in short, tailor my computing time around THEM -- just because some ethically-challenged salescum decides that he'll push a "free demo" of his "product" onto whatever PCs that aren't "protected".
Of course, you have a point too -- clueless users should STOP DOWNLOADING "free" software that is bundled with crap, dammit. There are plenty of no-catches-included freeware and open-source software that doesn't come bundled with shit. Software from the internet is not like getting junk from TV shopping -- you CAN get some things for FREE that don't need to be ad-supported (because explaining the difference between honest adware and spyware is much too difficult -- another reason why honest vendors should WANT to distance themselves from spyware and keep the 'adware' tag clean).
--
Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TheWickerMan
said by TheWickerMan :I think you missed the part about "without my consent." One either gives explicit consent by installing the crap, or implicit consent by allow it to happen. In other words, if you don't take steps to prevent crap from being installed, you are consenting to it's installation.
In the final analysis, you, and only you, are responsible for what gets installed on your computer.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Vvian Kalyss
said by Vvian Kalyss :Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part. The use or non-use of faulty software which allows "drive-by-downloads" is the computer owner's choice. Use un-patched and defective programs, use those free screen-savers, visit those porn sites, and you consent to whatever they happen to do to you.
To scream foul when something unpleasant happens as a result of your own actions (or lack of actions) is childish.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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exocet_cm
Signal 26's Rock
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
·Network Telephone ..
·Suddenlink
 ·Cingular Wireless
| reply to TamaraB
I take the action to prevent it yes, and have not had a problem for a long time now.
The problem comes when spyware is hidden in what looks to be a legitimate program, whatever it may be, IE: aim, etc... you get the picture.
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I know that God is real, but I don't think He created this vast universe just for us.
Seti@Home & Seti@Boinc |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by exocet_cm :I take the action to prevent it yes, and have not had a problem for a long time now. Right! And those who don't should wear the dunce cap, face the corner, and stop complaining.
said by exocet_cm :The problem comes when spyware is hidden in what looks to be a legitimate program, whatever it may be, IE: aim, etc... I don't think any spyware comes with any of those programs! Spyware/Adware come only with "free" eye-candy software. The nuisance they cause is the price of "free". It's hard to scam an honest man or woman!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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Unregistered user
@clients.speedfactory
| reply to TamaraB
If I forget to lock my door, am I responsible if a burglar comes in and steals everything? It's true that I did a stupid thing, but to say that I bear full responsibility is absurd.
Now, if the burglar takes up residence in my house, invites some of his friends, and uses it as a base of operations to commit more crimes, and someone informs me that it's happening, then it's my responsibility to evict him, just as it's my responsibility to clean my system of viruses when I'm notified it's infected.
I do think that Internet users need to educate themselves to the dangers out there. That's my biggest complaint: people who don't even take the time to gain the most basic understanding of how the Internet works and its inherent risks. |
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jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| reply to TamaraB
What if you are trying out a new program that says is spyware free but really isn't? Not everyone will come right out and say. "Hey! We come bundled with spyware!" Also not every scanner will pick it up either. Especially if is new or a newer variant. So even if you take steps to prevent it from installing you still can get hit from time to time. I have cleaned machines that run Firefox, anti-trojan software etc. etc. etc. but still get hit. |
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TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to TamaraB
said by TamaraB : said by Vvian Kalyss :Then explain drive-by-downloads that require NO ACTION on your part. The use or non-use of faulty software which allows "drive-by-downloads" is the computer owner's choice. Use un-patched and defective programs, use those free screen-savers, visit those porn sites, and you consent to whatever they happen to do to you. To scream foul when something unpleasant happens as a result of your own actions (or lack of actions) is childish. Bob And I suppose blaming the victim, as you're doing, is not childish?
If I leave me front door unlocked, that does not make it OK for someone to come in and rob me. The cops might tell me I'm stupid for leaving it unlocked, but they're still going to arrest the guy who robbed me, if they catch him. But by your logic, someone who leaves his door unlocked "consented" to being robbed.
I suppose that a woman who wears revealing attire is "consenting" to be raped. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by TheWickerMan : And I suppose blaming the victim, as you're doing, is not childish? If I leave me front door unlocked..... If you publicly advertise a computer service on let's say ports 445 and 137 or 139 for instance, it means you are inviting their use by the public. The Internet is a PUBLIC space, unlike your home which is a PRIVATE space.
If you run an anonymous FTP server, you have no basis to complain if someone uses it. If you run an MTA on port 25, you can't complain about it's public use; it is YOUR responsibility and no one Else's, to advertise only the services YOU want used publicly.
If you surf to a website with a program which will vacuum up any and all malware, it is YOU who have invited it in by doing so! If you run an open SMTP server, you have invited spammers to use it, if you run an open ANYTHING, it will be used because you have invited it's use. The Internet is NOT your private home, it's a VERY public and open area.
I am not blaming the victims for anything, there are no victims here, only public users of a public space; each one directly responsible for their own actions.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| said by TamaraB : The Internet is NOT your private home, it's a VERY public and open area. The internet is not my private home, but my computer is. Quit confusing the two.
By your logic, if your house is on a public street, I have every right to walk right in if I want. And even if I have to pick your locks to get in, it's your fault because you didn't secure it well enough. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by TheWickerMan :By your logic, if your house is on a public street, I have every right to walk right in... Keep the door open and hang a sign saying "free food inside" and YES anyone has a right to walk in and take you up on the offer. This is what you do when you advertise a service on the public network, and allow anyone to access it. Use a browser, or other program, which invites and allows open software installs, and you are saying fill-er-up, I want it!
said by TheWickerMan :And even if I have to pick your locks to get in, it's your fault because you didn't secure it well enough. No, this is different! This is a break-in not a public invite. No one picks any locks in a drive-by infection, or in a virus infection, those are "invitations" not "break-ins"; no passwords have been hacked, the site or email only makes use of the available PUBLIC services which you, your browser, or mail client allows and advertises.
No one picks your lock if you share your files via netbios to the world, or if you automatically execute an install program... you have invited them in they did not break in!
Perhaps your angst is mis-directed? It's not the scammers, spammers, phishers, or hackers who are the problem (these folks have been around for thousands of years); perhaps it's the fault of the defective toys you have chosen to use? Perhaps you use them without reading or heading the warnings? Whatever the case, it's no-body's fault but your own 99% of the time!
What I see and read here is way too much anger and frustration directed towards those who use publicly available services offered up freely by users; and NO anger directed towards those manufacturers who build-in these "features" in the first place. The manufacturer, who sells a product, which invites and allows un-attended installations is the one who should bear the brunt of the anger and blame.
I have NEVER had a trojan, worm, virus, spyware, or any form of maleware on ANY of my computers, and I have been on the net since 1985!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
December 17th, @11:24AM
| reply to jsouth
said by jsouth :What if you are trying out a new program that says is spyware free but really isn't? Not everyone will come right out and say. Google is your friend! There really are FEW excuses!!
Bob |
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FromThe Right
@verio.net
| reply to TamaraB
Take head out of Butt please!
You're kidding right. Please take your head out of your butt, and put the blame where it belongs... On the people making money; writing programs whose sole purpose is to install themselves without a users knowledge... and designed to be VERY difficult to remove. Quit blaming the sheep, and start shooting the wolves. |
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TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
edit:
December 17th, @12:42PM
| reply to TamaraB
Re: Crap is crap
said by TamaraB : No, this is different! This is a break-in not a public invite. No one picks any locks in a drive-by infection, or in a virus infection, those are "invitations" not "break-ins"; no passwords have been hacked, the site or email only makes use of the available PUBLIC services which you, your browser, or mail client allows and advertises. No one picks your lock if you share your files via netbios to the world, or if you automatically execute an install program... you have invited them in they did not break in! Perhaps your angst is mis-directed? It's not the scammers, spammers, phishers, or hackers who are the problem (these folks have been around for thousands of years); perhaps it's the fault of the defective toys you have chosen to use? Perhaps you use them without reading or heading the warnings? Whatever the case, it's no-body's fault but your own 99% of the time! What I see and read here is way too much anger and frustration directed towards those who use publicly available services offered up freely by users; and NO anger directed towards those manufacturers who build-in these "features" in the first place. The manufacturer, who sells a product, which invites and allows un-attended installations is the one who should bear the brunt of the anger and blame. I have NEVER had a trojan, worm, virus, spyware, or any form of maleware on ANY of my computers, and I have been on the net since 1985! OK, whatever.
So, if you unknowingly install a defective lock on your house, and I know how to exploit its vulnerability, then it's OK for me to walk in, right? |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to FromThe Right
Re: Take head out of Butt please!
said by FromThe Right:
You're kidding right. Please take your head out of your butt, and put the blame where it belongs... On the people making money; writing programs whose sole purpose is to install themselves without a users knowledge... and designed to be VERY difficult to remove. Quit blaming the sheep, and start shooting the wolves.
The BIGGEST BLAME should be aimed at Microsoft for distributing defective software. Why don't we see more blame directed at the source of the disease instead of at the symptoms of the disease; the pimples and warts the disease causes?
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TheWickerMan
Re: Crap is crap
said by TheWickerMan :So, if you unknowingly install a defective lock on your house, and I know how to exploit its vulnerability, then it's OK for me to walk in, right? Nope! But is says a whole lot about your intelligence, and your ability to choose a good lock! Ignorance, laysiness, and carelessness. in my opinion, is NO EXCUSE for bad choices!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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