VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| reply to dadkins
Re: Wow
said by dadkins  :Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives. Back when there was competition in the market, many ISPs chose to bundle Netscape on a CD and send it to subscribers, because it was the superior browser. Thanks to MS's monopoly, a radically-innovative company like Netscape is no more, and the market is once again stagnant. (The number of truely-innovative features added to IE in the last couple of years, can be counted on one finger. Personally, I'll use my middle one to count.) |
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rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
Host:
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ViaTalk
Teleblend
1 edit | reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 : How do you explain the failure of OS2 Warp? Fact is, if there were a truly better OS/browser, it would succeed. Microsoft is to blame for that too. OS/2 was a joint venture between IBM and MS until Microsoft abandoned the project and left IBM in the dust. In many ways, OS/2 was superior to Windows at the time.
said by DVOOR8 :I think 99.999% of the Windows/IE bashing has to do with the hatred of the Microsoft company rather than truly about the OS/Browser. I'm not bashing Microsoft at all, these are the facts. Microsoft was involved in an anti-trust lawsuit and they were found to be guilty of monopolistic business practices. They were almost broken up into separate companies because of this.
I don't use IE not because of some hatred for Microsoft, but because I find it lacking in features, feeble support for CSS2 and web standards, and its broken box model. |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to rjackson
said by rjackson : said by DVOOR8 : said by Unregistered user:
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. No, Netscape was pushed out of the race by Microsoft. They used their monopoly in the desktop market to force manufacturers to only bundle Internet Explorer with their machines and no other competitor. How do you explain the failure of OS2 Warp? Fact is, if there were a truly better OS/browser, it would succeed. I think 99.999% of the Windows/IE bashing has to do with the hatred of the Microsoft company rather than truly about the OS/Browser. |
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rjackson
Premium,Mod
join:2002-04-02
Ringgold, GA
clubs:
Host:
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| reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 : said by Unregistered user:
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. No, Netscape was pushed out of the race by Microsoft. They used their monopoly in the desktop market to force manufacturers to only bundle Internet Explorer with their machines and no other competitor. |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to Unregistered user
said by Unregistered user:Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Back then, Netscape ruled Well if IE sucked so bad, Netscape would still rule wouldnt it? Choices of Browsers is still available, fact is to 99% of the Computing public it works just fine, youll never change that. |
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Unregistered user
@cofs.net
| reply to dadkins
Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Uh, Win 3.x didn't include a browser. Windows 95 included such a basic browser, it was utterly useless. Back then, Netscape ruled, and you could get it several ways:
1. FTP
2. From your ISP or university
3. From a friend
4. Included in a book
And guess what? All these sources are still available for software distribution, plus there are file transfers via IM apps, USB drives, and CD-R's, which allow you to exchange much more data than in the old days.
You're right when you say that many average users don't know what FTP is, but that doesn't make it any less relevant to the Internet. Without FTP, how do you think Web sites are uploaded to Web servers in the first place? |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
1 edit | reply to BlahAgain
Deleted. |
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BlahAgain
@dialup.pol
| reply to dadkins
Simple fact is if M$ hadnt bundled iExplorer with windows any ISP would provide a choice of browsers on the installation disc, something like what AOL does, but with more choice, or if microsoft wasnt so anti-competition they would have provided a choice during installation of windows letting the user choose which browser they wanted to use. Anyone remember netscape? that was huge and popular before internet explorer arrived... so how did people get that? from purchasing the software and getting it sent to them on disc... much simpler if microsoft internet signup wizard asked what browser you would like to install and then downloaded it, all these alternatives could have happened if microsoft hadn't used its financial might to break the law and bury the competition, now its in a situation where its money cant affect the comptition and all the fanboys like you are pi**ed |
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You_Suck
 from:
dadkins
| reply to dadkins
Um... I found out about FireFox by opening my oven one day, and a Fired Fox jumped out and ran away  |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
2 edits | reply to biggbrother
What OS are you using?
What browser are you using?
How did you get it?
Are you satisfied with it?
Can you remove the OS and install a different OS in it's place?
Will this different OS work for your tasks?
I use XP.
I use Opera and SlimBrowser(IE based).
I used IE to download them.
I am very satisfied with my choices.
I have installed different OSes(Mandrake, Suse, Knoppix(actually installed to HDD)). Removed said OSes, replaced XP to HDD.
No, they didn't play the games/could not find working drivers for my hardware.
I have never eluded to "owing" Microsoft thanks for anything(although, most people today wouldn't be using computers without Microsoft being here). I merely stated, that if an OS(any OS) didn't have a browser, the majority of people that have computers... wouldn't!
"So if IE wasn't preloaded on thes machines then billions of users would be cut off from all types of software downloads from the web (i.e. media players, games, etc)?"
Not "cut off", but greatly hampered. Alot of software *CAN* be found at stores... *ALOT* of other software cannot!
Sure, there are some that can Command Line download "ITEMS", most cannot.
You typed exactly what I was trying to convey...
"...In my opinion, they would be forced by the Justice Department to put some sort of basic web interface into Windows if they did not offer IE."
EXACTLY!
People like to bash Microsoft/IE because it's fashionable...yet most of them will not give up their Microsoft OS and use something different. Same applies to simply not using IE and using whatever browser they wish... but let's bash on IE, because it's fun!
Use whatever floats your boat people, I do! I have an IE based browser as my default, but I also use Opera. BFD!
SIDE NOTE: I have *NEVER* been compromized while using IE or IE based browsers. YMMV. 
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No Firefox here, move along! |
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electric_dsl
join:2004-07-20
Pickering, ON
| reply to Aggie Dan
Good for you mate!
However a lot of people have lives outside of a computer screen, many have jobs on top of that. Many like myself work with computers for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I know that I don't want to mess around with my computer if I need it at home. I want to do the most possible with the least amount of work.
Not to mention most people don't even know where to START when it comes to learning things about computers. Just because you can do it doesn't mean a 60 old grandma who wants to email her grandchildren can or wants to learn. |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives. I really don't understand what point your getting at. So you are saying thay we "owe" Microsoft thanks because they preload Internet Explorer on Windows machines? So if IE wasn't preloaded on thes machines then billions of users would be cut off from all types of software downloads from the web (i.e. media players, games, etc)?
The only reason MS has this power is because they have a monolpoly. In my opinion, they would be forced by the Justice Department to put some sort of basic web interface into Windows if they did not offer IE.
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Xbox Live Gamertag is Gupiter |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Aggie Dan
No offense, but you are in a minority that knows how to do these things. The majority of computer users today would be lost trying to use a terminal as you described.
Most people today use a browser of some sort. Most people use Microsoft OSes. If Microsoft didn't have a browser included(or the system mfgr. didn't bundle a browser), they would not be able to find out about/download alternatives.
As always, YMMV.
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No Firefox here, move along! |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| reply to dadkins
Actually, you can set up a linux box without a browser.
And you can get new programs to install (using Gentoo as a reference here) all via portage.
All programs are organized into easy to understand categories. Also, I use Pan for Newsgroup access, so I could just use that to download program source files or (ACK!) rpms. And join discussion groups on software.
Quite frankly, the browser may seem to dominate the web, but there is a lot more out there than the "average" user knows about.
And how did I learn how to do all this stuff? Easy. I didn't have a browser, so I used what was available. I didn't have a computer and had to use a dumb terminal that was connected to my University's VAX cluster. In order to "see the world" I had to find out for myself how things worked. Then I found IRC, MUDs, Newsgroups, etc... And learned how to use them all on a terminal.
--
Note : The statements made by myself are my own and not the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. 15.81 GHz Crunching Power | The Ryan Foundation for MPS Children |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to rjackson
LMAO! You people are funny! Out of the X amount of people that downloaded it, how do you think they found out about Firefox?
How many of these downloads were done the way(s) you you suggest vs using IE?
Granted, Microsoft shouldn't have burried IE so far into the OS... but, what would *ANY* OS be without a browser to enable people to get online to possibly get something different?
Uh huh.
I personally don't like Mozilla products(my choice).
IE enabled me to *TRY* many other softwares... including Mozilla/Firefox, Netscape, Opera, the whole lot of IE based browsers, and many other apps. I suspect that many/most others did the same.
Have a great day people!
EDIT: Typo
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No Firefox here, move along! |
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