mavizao
join:2004-08-21
Brazil
| reply to Nerdtalker
Re: Their country is smaller
No wonder why your nickname is NerdTalker.
Read the article again and let's see:
47.000.000.000
X
___800.000.000
I see US investments are losing by a couple digits.
The "oh, they are smaller" excuse sounds just retarded when you see that they are investing just 58.75 (should i say 59?) times more money for it.
I think you guys are screwed mainly because of your dumb regulations in which benefits the smaller ISP's (why invest a LOT of money when you can wait the big player come, use a hell lot of their money and then you rent their fiber for almost nothing?)
But i can tell you are far ahead of us at Sao Paulo (Brazil), which is top 10 biggest of the world (or top 5)...
We have only one real broadband company which rules even worse than your 2 or 3 big guys  |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to Nerdtalker
Perhaps they have different values...perhaps they just don't care...not because they are 'ignorant', as some here would like everyone to believe, but because they have different interests, and their whole life doesn't revolve around the Internet.
The two cultures are vastly different.
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A is A |
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jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: 
 ·magicjack.com
·Vonage
·Acanac
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Nerdtalker
I think New York would be easier to work in then some Japanese city. United States is seriously behind the times when it comes to broadband. Look Canada has 9 in the top 15 for highest speed ISP, 5 of the top 5, and this country has a very tough infrastructure since it's population is so small over such a large area. Yet even ISP's are promising speeds of over 20Mbs in the near future. Great Britain is similar in area of that of Japan, and a population that is not significantly smaller, yet they are still plugging along at 512kbs.
10 years from now most will have fibre to their house, which will include all television/phone/internet services. You just don't want to have to spend all this money at the last minute. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to DaSneaky1D
If anything, it's the mentality of people here. Japan has the understanding that IP communication (and truly converged communication) is the way of the future. These people use video communication as part of life, not a novelty of it. I agree that the mentality of Japan is much different. If NYC was its own country, it would operate much differently as well. As a physically small island nation with a high population density, life itself is much different, and society be run efficient to be productive. |
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jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: | reply to DaDogs
Re: The important number
Actually, Japan has a population of 127,000,000 and at a cost of 48 billion US, it works out to roughly $377 per person. That's not a lot. |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| reply to justin
Re: Their country is smaller
said by justin  : said by Nerdtalker : What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth. That is why government needs to step in some times and set a direction for the market. It is hardly controversial to say that the competitive countries of the 21st century will be ones with the best communications infrastructure, or certainly have an advantage with the best communications infrastructure. And that means fiber, and fiber everywhere. NTT is still heavily influenced by government policy in Japan, which is heavily driven by export competitiveness. If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. Goverment is going to fix internets you say? Got some wood?
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»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | right, the government is useless at everything. That is why we have such a huge budget surplus right now, because damn we can't find anything to spend the money on. |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea | reply to Nerdtalker
What about more wood? |
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Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA | reply to jeffster1970
Re: The important number
Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| said by Automate :Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. Wow that does make a big difference we have like 0 people with fiber.
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»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. |
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Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| reply to dk1983
said by dk1983 :Your formula is wrong there Automate because if that was the case that company would get there ROI in one month. If it has 30 Mill. subscribers. Huh? how do you come up with that? |
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Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
1 edit | reply to Kim Jong
Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick.  |
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Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| said by Automate :Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick. Tell that to Enron please.
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»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to Nerdtalker
Re: Their country is smaller
said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? The problem with that argument is that Japan's telco industry in ONE company, NTT. In the US, with several players, the ability to wire the US with fiber is diffused amongst the different telecom players.
Size really isn't the problem as much as it is the marketability of fiber. The fact is that the average America is just that, average... Average income, average intelligence, average interest in technology, etc.
The problem is that you have to convince a person that confuses memory with hard disk space to get something called "fiber optic broadband." Until you can get most people interested in that, the economics of the situation don't bode well for the more technically inclined since the majority of the population really doesn't care how many bits they can get down a pipe... They don't download ISOs or heavy content. They just want it to work.
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Statistics never lie... But liars use statistics.
Viva La Fee' Verte! |
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Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| reply to bamboox
said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Seeing as his response was a response to me I'd like to answer this. Americans just don't really care. They don't know enough to need all that bandwidth because they don't care to find out. It's not about being stupid its about what matters and there are bigger issues in the world (family, life, getting laid, etc) to worry about how fat your pipe is. I mean really, wtf does an average person need a 20-100Mb pipe for. I mean, personally I'd love that. I have wet dreams about it. But our culture isn't as techno-fad crazy as the Japanese (and Korean) cultures (not saying either one is good or bad). I'd say our boom is coming in the next 4-6 years. What will really help this along, besides friendlier local regulations, is something that makes Americans either really want Broadband or making it so cheap that its like paying for phone service. I think as services (TV, phone, etc), especially business services, get increasingly digitalized we'll see the cost of broadband solutions go down and interest by consumers go up.
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"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent to remain that way" - Me |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | reply to soothsayer15
Re: Their country is smaller
said by soothsayer15 : said by maartena : said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants. You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years. This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. actually it seems that they're coming from logic. Out of 300 million people, 30 million of which live in New York City or Los Angeles. Another 30+ million live in cities like Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Atlanta, etc...
I'd say that his 30% statistic could hold some water.
As far as his FTTH claim, I'd be willing to believe that too. Out of all of the information that I've looked at, i'd actually say it's probably even less than 1% though. Only a very small number of select expensive neighborhoods around the nation have direct access to Fiber internet connectivity. I wouldn't think that 3 million people have Fiber connectivity.
On to the Euro cities - I have no clue. I know that Sweden provides 10mbps and 100mbps connectivity for around the same prices we pay here for cable. Just look at the swedish ISPs and you'll see for yourself. As far as Germany - i'm not sure. Although I hear that Former East Germany has massive Fiber buildout, I haven't heard anything in regards to the rest of it.
Random Statistics pulled from thin air? I don't think so. A simple google search would back up most of those claims. |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| reply to Nerdtalker
Actually they have methods to make installing fiber much easier. No need to dig up roads etc. You would also think that the supposed most technologically advanced nation on the planet. Would at least be able to compete with other nations in this regard.
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Test Your Security Benefit for Children's Cancer Cable Diagnostics My Blog |
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Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH
clubs:
| reply to Anon00
couldnt agree more here. id kill for a t1 or t3 right now let alone a fiber connection. id die happy if i had fiber. but am i going to see it any time soon? id have a much better chance getting struck by lightning than getting fiber in the next couple years.
only advice i can say is to hold out another decade or so when (hopefully) the population starts becoming more tech-saavy. then we should see some more demand for faster broadband. |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to bamboox
said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Thank you for sticking words in my mouth, since that's not what I said.
The post I was replying to explained that Americans aren't as interested in seeing even faster speeds delivered to their house at this point, since most either haven't been exposed to broadband, or don't know what to do with the bandwidth they already have.
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Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
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