how-to block ads
|
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs: | Their country is smaller Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US.
Need I say more? | |
|  
Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Re: Their country is smaller Yes, you do need to say more. Since that would indicate we'd at least see serious residential fiber deployments in compressed urban areas like New York City if congestion was the only obstacle. | |
| |
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Minister  :urban areas like New York City if congestion was the only obstacle. It might be more than congestion, it might be that the infrastructure under the streets is hard to access.
Think about it, working under the streets on a massive scale in New York? Just to deliver faster bandwidth to people who already don't know how to utilize it?
Doesn't sound economically sound to me.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters, fill it up: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam to date: 2 | |
| | | 
DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Their country is smaller Uh, do you realize that the depth under NY is almost equal to its height? There is NO problem with working under NY. Besides, feeds would likely be topside.
If anything, it's the mentality of people here. Japan has the understanding that IP communication (and truly converged communication) is the way of the future. These people use video communication as part of life, not a novelty of it.
We're still trying to get over the VoIP hurdle.
--
] :: my trivial ramblings :: [ | |
| | | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Their country is smaller If anything, it's the mentality of people here. Japan has the understanding that IP communication (and truly converged communication) is the way of the future. These people use video communication as part of life, not a novelty of it. I agree that the mentality of Japan is much different. If NYC was its own country, it would operate much differently as well. As a physically small island nation with a high population density, life itself is much different, and society be run efficient to be productive. | |
| | | 
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | have you seen a japanese urban street? you think it is easy there? they can't even run roadworks unless they are done at 1am and all plated over by 6am. | |
| | | | | | | TBC1
join:2002-05-31
Ft Mitchell, KY
| Re: Their country is smaller said by jeffster1970 : Great Britain is similar in area of that of Japan, and a population that is not significantly smaller, yet they are still plugging along at 512kbs. GB's population is more than significantly smaller, like well less than half of that of Japan (60 million in GB to 127 million in Japan). | |
| | | 
IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Actually they have methods to make installing fiber much easier. No need to dig up roads etc. You would also think that the supposed most technologically advanced nation on the planet. Would at least be able to compete with other nations in this regard.
--
Test Your Security Benefit for Children's Cancer Cable Diagnostics My Blog | |
| 
maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants.
You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years.
--
And i'm right. I'm always right, but this time I'm a little more right then I usually am. | |
| | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX | Re: Their country is smaller This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. | |
| | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
| said by maartena : said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants. You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years. This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. | |
| | | 
tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: Their country is smaller said by soothsayer15 : said by maartena : said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? That explains why 70% of the U.S. cannot get and will never get FTTH most likely. It does not explain why there is pretty much NO FTTH available in the entire Greater Los Angeles area which is packed up with 16 million inhabitants. You'd think they would at least be able to do SOMETHING for the 30% of the population that lives in very urbanized areas, but in reality there isn't even FTTH availabilty to even a full 1 percent of the population. Its that way in most European cities too by the way, but they are making an effort there like in Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands there are projects to fiber up entire cities in the next 5 years. This is what's I'm talking about. Random statistics that mean nothing coming from thin air. actually it seems that they're coming from logic. Out of 300 million people, 30 million of which live in New York City or Los Angeles. Another 30+ million live in cities like Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Atlanta, etc...
I'd say that his 30% statistic could hold some water.
As far as his FTTH claim, I'd be willing to believe that too. Out of all of the information that I've looked at, i'd actually say it's probably even less than 1% though. Only a very small number of select expensive neighborhoods around the nation have direct access to Fiber internet connectivity. I wouldn't think that 3 million people have Fiber connectivity.
On to the Euro cities - I have no clue. I know that Sweden provides 10mbps and 100mbps connectivity for around the same prices we pay here for cable. Just look at the swedish ISPs and you'll see for yourself. As far as Germany - i'm not sure. Although I hear that Former East Germany has massive Fiber buildout, I haven't heard anything in regards to the rest of it.
Random Statistics pulled from thin air? I don't think so. A simple google search would back up most of those claims. | |
| | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| The important number The important number is 47B/30M = $1567 per home
When you consider most people are not going to be willing to pay more than $100/month for combined Internet/phone/TV and after the cost of sales, tech support, billing, Internet backbone cost, TV programming cost (ESPN etc.) they maybe would end up with $25 profit per home per month.
1567/ 25 = 5.22 year pay back.
Most American companies are not going to go for a 5+ year pay back on investment. They would rather wait a few years until the cost per home has gone down in half. | |
| | | | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
| Re: The important number said by dk1983 :Your formula is wrong there Automate because if that was the case that company would get there ROI in one month. If it has 30 Mill. subscribers. Huh? how do you come up with that? | |
| | | 
DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| said by Automate :The important number is 47B/30M = $1567 per home When you consider most people are not going to be willing to pay more than $100/month for combined Internet/phone/TV and after the cost of sales, tech support, billing, Internet backbone cost, TV programming cost (ESPN etc.) they maybe would end up with $25 profit per home per month. 1567/ 25 = 5.22 year pay back. Most American companies are not going to go for a 5+ year pay back on investment. They would rather wait a few years until the cost per home has gone down in half. Actually I believe that is 1567.00 per person. Probably more like 4000.00 per home. Pay back may come in ten years if recurring costs are not too high.
Hey I am all for FTTH for the entire LA basin, if they want to pay for it themselves with their own tax dollars and none of mine.
--
In the background stand the Clinton's bloody switchblade in hand, never to be blamed, but still in the running for '08. | |
| | | | 
jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: | Re: The important number Actually, Japan has a population of 127,000,000 and at a cost of 48 billion US, it works out to roughly $377 per person. That's not a lot. | |
| | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA | Re: The important number Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. | |
| | | | | | 
Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: The important number said by Automate :Guess you did not read the article. They said the system will reach half of the population, not all of them. Wow that does make a big difference we have like 0 people with fiber.
--
»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. | |
| | | | | | | Automate
join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
1 edit | Re: The important number Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick.  | |
| | | | | | | |
Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: The important number said by Automate :Well, if you were a business and every time your accountant was off by a factor of 2 in his calculations, you would probably be out of business pretty quick. Tell that to Enron please.
--
»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. | |
| 
lyls
@tele.dk
 from:
woody7
| i still dont get why so many of you americans on here always defend the companies by saying "oh the us is so much better" dont you guys want fiber? let the companies know you want it...... personally id almost kill for fiber | |
| |
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by lyls:
i still dont get why so many of you americans on here always defend the companies by saying "oh the us is so much better" dont you guys want fiber? let the companies know you want it...... personally id almost kill for fiber
Do you have fiber? I'd doubt it, especially since you're from a danish ADSL provider.
I'd hardly kill for fiber.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters, fill it up: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam to date: 2 | |
| | | Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? Not to mention Japanese citizens are a lot more interested in new technologies than the average American. BBR folks need to face it, not everyone in the United States is soooo concerned about broadband. If it comes along and its cheap (and not necessarily fast), sure why not but its not a must have item. Oh and population density does matter a lot when deploying new technologies, but it isn't the only concern. To answer, then why not in New York and Los Angeles. Well folks think about the socio-economic situations in those densly-populated areas.
--
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent to remain that way" - Me | |
| |
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Anon00 :Not to mention Japanese citizens are a lot more interested in new technologies than the average American. BBR folks need to face it, not everyone in the United States is soooo concerned about broadband. If it comes along and its cheap (and not necessarily fast), sure why not but its not a must have item. Oh and population density does matter a lot when deploying new technologies, but it isn't the only concern. To answer, then why not in New York and Los Angeles. Well folks think about the socio-economic situations in those densely-populated areas. That's what I'm trying to say.
What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth.
Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat about what throughput means in terms of the "experience". To them, page load times are the only benchmark of real-world speed. With that in mind, most current sites don't even begin to saturate Joe's pipe. DNS servers are the weak link here, followed by the webserver itself.
I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters, fill it up: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam to date: 2 | |
| | | 
bamboox
join:2000-12-15
Renton, WA
| Re: Their country is smaller said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. | |
| | | | Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
| Re: Their country is smaller said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Seeing as his response was a response to me I'd like to answer this. Americans just don't really care. They don't know enough to need all that bandwidth because they don't care to find out. It's not about being stupid its about what matters and there are bigger issues in the world (family, life, getting laid, etc) to worry about how fat your pipe is. I mean really, wtf does an average person need a 20-100Mb pipe for. I mean, personally I'd love that. I have wet dreams about it. But our culture isn't as techno-fad crazy as the Japanese (and Korean) cultures (not saying either one is good or bad). I'd say our boom is coming in the next 4-6 years. What will really help this along, besides friendlier local regulations, is something that makes Americans either really want Broadband or making it so cheap that its like paying for phone service. I think as services (TV, phone, etc), especially business services, get increasingly digitalized we'll see the cost of broadband solutions go down and interest by consumers go up.
--
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent to remain that way" - Me | |
| | | | | 
Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH
clubs:
| Re: Their country is smaller couldnt agree more here. id kill for a t1 or t3 right now let alone a fiber connection. id die happy if i had fiber. but am i going to see it any time soon? id have a much better chance getting struck by lightning than getting fiber in the next couple years.
only advice i can say is to hold out another decade or so when (hopefully) the population starts becoming more tech-saavy. then we should see some more demand for faster broadband. | |
| | | |
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by bamboox : said by Nerdtalker :Let's face it, Average Joe knows didly-squat...I'd agree, Americans just don't know enough to want more bandwidth. To paraphrase what you're saying: The average American is just too ignorant. The Japanese are much more educated. Thank you for sticking words in my mouth, since that's not what I said.
The post I was replying to explained that Americans aren't as interested in seeing even faster speeds delivered to their house at this point, since most either haven't been exposed to broadband, or don't know what to do with the bandwidth they already have. 
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters, fill it up: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam to date: 2 | |
| | |
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| said by Nerdtalker : What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth. That is why government needs to step in some times and set a direction for the market. It is hardly controversial to say that the competitive countries of the 21st century will be ones with the best communications infrastructure, or certainly have an advantage with the best communications infrastructure. And that means fiber, and fiber everywhere. NTT is still heavily influenced by government policy in Japan, which is heavily driven by export competitiveness. If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. | |
| | | |
Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| Re: Their country is smaller said by justin : said by Nerdtalker : What company is going to spend the money to invest in laying new fiber, delivering a new service, and hoping that enough people care or know enough to actually subscribe for more bandwidth. That is why government needs to step in some times and set a direction for the market. It is hardly controversial to say that the competitive countries of the 21st century will be ones with the best communications infrastructure, or certainly have an advantage with the best communications infrastructure. And that means fiber, and fiber everywhere. NTT is still heavily influenced by government policy in Japan, which is heavily driven by export competitiveness. If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. Goverment is going to fix internets you say? Got some wood?
--
»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. | |
| | | | |
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Their country is smaller right, the government is useless at everything. That is why we have such a huge budget surplus right now, because damn we can't find anything to spend the money on. | |
| | | |
Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| said by justin :If the US is prepared to offer tax incentives to buy 6000lb SUVs in the name of (I don't know what) then it should step in and accelerate fiber deployment, yes, using taxpayer dollars. For once, I'd agree. We need to get pushed in the right direction on this one.
Not necessarily by intervening through subsidizing broadband, but by offering tax relief or write-offs/incentives to companies that are actively encouraging the deployment of fiber.
Hopefully, as broadband becomes more popular, people will demand more bandwidth, and thus fiber.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters, fill it up: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam to date: 2 | |
| | | 
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Perhaps they have different values...perhaps they just don't care...not because they are 'ignorant', as some here would like everyone to believe, but because they have different interests, and their whole life doesn't revolve around the Internet.
The two cultures are vastly different.
--
A is A | |
|
Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? No please don't say ANYTHING else.
--
»dickcream.com/tandem/ DC/GNAA/YTMND representing world wide. | |
| mavizao
join:2004-08-21
Brazil
| No wonder why your nickname is NerdTalker.
Read the article again and let's see:
47.000.000.000
X
___800.000.000
I see US investments are losing by a couple digits.
The "oh, they are smaller" excuse sounds just retarded when you see that they are investing just 58.75 (should i say 59?) times more money for it.
I think you guys are screwed mainly because of your dumb regulations in which benefits the smaller ISP's (why invest a LOT of money when you can wait the big player come, use a hell lot of their money and then you rent their fiber for almost nothing?)
But i can tell you are far ahead of us at Sao Paulo (Brazil), which is top 10 biggest of the world (or top 5)...
We have only one real broadband company which rules even worse than your 2 or 3 big guys | |
|
Kim Jong
Mo Dollar Plz
Premium
join:2002-09-01
North Korea | What about more wood? | |
| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by Nerdtalker :Well, firstly, Japan is much smaller than the US. Need I say more? The problem with that argument is that Japan's telco industry in ONE company, NTT. In the US, with several players, the ability to wire the US with fiber is diffused amongst the different telecom players.
Size really isn't the problem as much as it is the marketability of fiber. The fact is that the average America is just that, average... Average income, average intelligence, average interest in technology, etc.
The problem is that you have to convince a person that confuses memory with hard disk space to get something called "fiber optic broadband." Until you can get most people interested in that, the economics of the situation don't bode well for the more technically inclined since the majority of the population really doesn't care how many bits they can get down a pipe... They don't download ISOs or heavy content. They just want it to work.
--
Statistics never lie... But liars use statistics.
Viva La Fee' Verte! | |
| 
Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY | I am seriously considering learning Japanese/Korean and moving to either Japan or South Korea in the future.
America is behind in everything involving technology. | |
|
thaths darn right
@optonline.net
| Passed, not served... Japan is different, you can string fiber under a small city and that would be enough for all of Japan, but they're not exporting anything good lately, They're living off the wealth of the Go-GO 1980's... as is much of US, with the exception of those who are in the ENERGY business | |
| |
justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: Their country is smaller said by thaths darn right:
but they're not exporting anything good lately, They're living off the wealth of the Go-GO 1980's..
You're so wrong. They are next door to china. They export construction, technology and know-how into that furnace by the billion-load. And last time I looked, almost all consumer electronics were japanese or korean except for, what, the ipod? | |
| 
b_zen
Premium
join:2002-07-24
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·TTNet
| Let's rephrase that. How about:
Japan has a higher qualified Engineering workforce.
Japan (as other European countries) has a more sociological implementation of technology. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that getting first posts mean that you sometime need to be quick on the writing, and then edit as you wish...
I was in NL, where in the city of Eindhoven, you can get a minimum of 10/10Mbps and if you choose to participate in a study or "beta", you get Ethernet speeds.
The problem with the US, is its 20th century like thinking, where mega-corp mamas think they can retain control over all aspects of the information technology, or call it otherwise, anything-internet-bounded.
That won't work, even though owning the actual fiber, or infrastructure is key as of now. Look up to other venues such as wireless, OFDM, WIMAX, UWB and such, and you shall see that a gazillion of options are available or soon to be implemented.
To get back to your initial post, Japan is much smaller than the US in sheer size, however, it's a microcosm; Japan is much bigger than the US, on a square-mile rate. The concentration makes it more able to think/act quickly. So yes, the Asian peninsula, along with other smaller countries, will keep kicking the US in the behind on this kind of topic.
It's Friday night, I need a drink!
--
UWB over Wire is the future!
3Plink.com |Voice|Video|Data| | |
|
GawdZillaComing
@optonline.net | AHHHHH!!!!
And he shoots fiber out of his mouth!!
The new action figure for 249 yen, a real bargain..
Gawdziwra!!! | |
| | | |
|
·
·
