ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA
 ·Comcast
 ·Vonage
| conflicting info on home alarm & voip service???
i've been considering getting a home alarm system; we terminated our pots line service about 18 mos ago since our gsm cell phones do everything we need from voice communications. we have comcast cable for internet service. i've been considering getting a home alarm system & have contacted several companies to see if they support voip. adt responded: "VoIP isn't suitable for use as an alarm data transmission medium. In fact,most VoIP providers specifically prohibit its use for alarm
transmission. Until such time that a reliable residential IP method is determined, ADT doesn't authorize or permit the use of the internet and/or VoIP for residential.
ADT Security Services" however, another provider answered thusly: " Voice over IP WILL allow our system to dial out. As long as your home phone has a dial tone on it then everything will work just fine. CHRIS R RESIDENTIAL SYSTEMS ANALYST PROTECT AMERICA HOME SECURITY SERVICES INC"
i'm confused. can anyone advise if a home alarm system does support voip? thank you in advance. bub |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| First of all, the statement from ADT that "most VoIP providers specifically prohibit its use for alarm transmission" is utterly and totally false. To the best of my knowledge, not one single VoIP provider prohibits the use of their service for home alarms. They may not support such use, but that's a far cry from prohibiting it.
Basically it depends on which signalling method the alarm uses to "phone home." I won't get into a technical discussion of that, but suffice it to say that some methods (such as, apparently, the one used by ADT) don't work with VoIP, while others do, with at least some VoIP providers. I would suggest that you use a VoIP provider that doesn't use high compression by default (ask in this forum if you want to know about a particular VoIP provider; some offer user-selectable compression modes, and you should use the one with the least compression for best results).
You may find this thread useful:
»ADT Security: Response to using of VOIP
Note in particular the response from kenn10  , which suggests a couple of other alternatives you may also wish to check into. Basically, it sounds to me like ADT doesn't want to be bothered with VoIP users, but they attempt to mislead you into thinking that you won't be able to use any other alarm service with VoIP either, which is simply not the case. Personally, if it were me making the purchase decision I would wonder, if a company tried to mislead me on something like that, could I trust any other statement they might make during their sales presentation? But that's just me; I'm not saying you should necessarily think that way. |
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garys_2k
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI | reply to ebubman
Re: conflicting info on home alarm & voip service?
Have to wonder how long ADT will hold out. I mean, if they don't see the tidal wave coming they're REALLY blind. |
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ieee1394
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Washington
 ·TowerStream
| reply to ebubman
Re: conflicting info on home alarm & voip service???
Both of the responses given to the original poster are inaccurate. But I think ADT is completely correct to do the right thing and REQUIRE a POTS line to support their alarm systems. To date this is the ONLY reliable way to support an alarm system other than using a wireless solution.
Alarm systems connected to VOIP may or may not work and this is something that can change at any time based on 1) the availability of an Internet connection (i.e. residential services have no SLA and are not guaratneed to EVER be up and running) and 2) the performance of the available Internet connection when it is most important (i.e. a perfect broadband service when you test the alarm is one thing, but high latency and packet loss when your alarm system needs to dial out over your VOIP line is another thing).
Residential VOIP is not a reliable medium and don't let anyone ever convince you otherwise. This situation will not change until the underlying medium (i.e. residential broadband service) becomes an essential service like dial tone. At the moment there is no movement to do this. While the FCC in recent remarks said they wanted to regulate VOIP the part they forgot is that you can't do much to regulate VOIP unless you regulate the broadband services it arrives on. Unfortunatley, there's a conflict with the FCC's policies here because they don't want to regulate broadband.
Technically, you're better off getting a completley stripped down POTS line just to service your alarm system. As we all know, however, those stripped down lines can end up costing an arm and a leg thanks to all of those extra fees that are attached. |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH
·callwithus
·Axvoice
| reply to ebubman
There is some good and some bad info here.
1. First realize that your voip provider can not guaranty that your voip line is going to work all the time. How could you expect your alarm company to?
2. I now that P8, vonage, BVD and others have had success in transmitting 4+2 format alarm transmissions, but there is NO guaranty.
3. Depending where you are located there are other forms of transmissions (RF, PUC, Cell...)
4. Napco and DSC now offer ethernet net connection directly to their control panels for communicating to certain central stations.
5. If you are connecting a commercial fire alarm, then you need one dedicated phone line and another approved method (phone line, radio, cell...)
My advice would have to be 'connect you alarm to a pots line'. If you can't; something is better than nothing. Contact local alarm companies till you find someone who has the right alternative for your local area. There are usually one or two using their own RF equipment.
Good Luck! |
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garys_2k
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Vonage
| reply to ebubman
Re: conflicting info on home alarm & voip service?
It comes down to the probability that the line will work and communications can take place at any given time. Neither POTS, wireless or VOIP are 100% reliable. It's all a matter of degrees of reliability, comfort level and cost.
But my point that ADT is burying their head in the sand by choosing to pretend that VoIP doesn't exist, or is inherently incompatible, still stands. Their competition will pass them by and they'll eventually be selling to a dwindling potential customer base if they don't come around with a solution. They seem to be forgetting that the customers DEFINE the market for them, they merely provide solutions for that market. |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| garys_2k, you are absolutely correct. But beyond that, in an industry that depends on customer trust (you basically have to trust your alarm company to provide the protection they say they offer), what does it say when one company makes false and misleading statements to customers, perhaps in a misguided effort to prevent them from considering the services of competitors?
There is no place that wireline service is up 100% of the time. Recently during the Florida hurricanes there was a story that went around about a customer whose VoIP service worked while all his neighbors' landline service had gone out. Many phone companies have gone to using remote terminals, and if the backup power supply goes bad in one of those, it can knock an entire neighborhood or small village out of phone service for several hours (I have seen this happen firsthand!). I realize that for many people VoIP isn't yet quite as reliable as standard wireline phone service (and in some locations the difference may be more pronounced) but no matter what you use, you are taking a chance that the burglar won't break in or the fire won't start at the exact same time that your service is down (be it wireline, wireless, or VoIP).
I really have no problem with people who feel like spending the extra $$$ to get a slightly greater degree of reliability - that is their choice. But actually, if they are that concerned, maybe they should install two separate alarm systems hooked to two different companies, and using two different communications paths back to "home base"! Others may decide that they are willing to take their chances that the event that requires assistance won't happen at the exact same moment their communications path is down, in order to save some money. The majority of people still have no alarm system at all. And then there are those people who won't even install smoke detectors! Everyone has a different level of acceptable risk. |
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kwest
join:2003-05-15
Dallas, GA
| reply to ebubman
Re: conflicting info on home alarm & voip service???
I use a small alarm company here over voicepulse and it works each time I test it. I have read in post that ADT will NOT work over VOIP something to do with signaling. Just find someone else, I know around here my friend has ADT and its like $29 a month, I only pay $15 and it works fine. |
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jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| reply to ebubman
My alarm is connected to my POTS line, but I did connect it to my Vonage line to test. Works fine every time - no problems.
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. |
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ieee1394
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Washington
·TowerStream
| reply to WhyADuck
Re: conflicting info on home alarm & voip service?
said by WhyADuck :...in an industry that depends on customer trust (you basically have to trust your alarm company to provide the protection they say they offer), what does it say when one company makes false and misleading statements to customers, perhaps in a misguided effort to prevent them from considering the services of competitors?
WhyADuck and garys_2k, I agree with what you are saying. And it is important to understand the part about degrees of reliability. With that said, VOIP is, so far, much much much less reliable than POTS because neither VOIP nor broadband HAVE TO BE reliable at all. That's the current legal status of these technologies. POTS on the other hand has to be reliable. While your service providers can shrug off an outage with VOIP or your broadband connection they may not do so for POTS.
And with that I forgot to mention that in the original post an alarm company rep (or agent) was quoted as saying: "As long as your home phone has a dial tone on it then everything will work just fine." That statement is completely untrue.
Also, to the poster that compared monitoring prices for different companies: you can't go on price alone. Most of the companies that sell alarm systems will subsidize equipment by jacking up the monitoring price and locking a customer in for X number of years. Only once the contract obligation is up are you free to shop around for any monitoring company of your choosing, in which case great prices (i.e. significantly lower) can be found. |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| reply to kwest
said by kwest :I use a small alarm company here over voicepulse and it works each time I test it. I have read in post that ADT will NOT work over VOIP something to do with signaling. Just find someone else, I know around here my friend has ADT and its like $29 a month, I only pay $15 and it works fine.
ADT is just plain nasty...there are so many better choices that use "generic" non-proprietary components, have no long-term contracts, and have informed staff...
When I moved in my house earlier this year, I went with one of the local companies (Ackerman) and had discussions with both the sales rep and the installer about VoIP (I do have a POTS line because I have to have it to have DSL, but if I dump it for Comcast or if BellSouth offers naked DSL, bye-bye POTS) and both assured me they could set things up to get it working fine over VoIP. 
-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend
No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| reply to ieee1394
said by ieee1394 :With that said, VOIP is, so far, much much much less reliable than POTS because neither VOIP nor broadband HAVE TO BE reliable at all. That's the current legal status of these technologies. POTS on the other hand has to be reliable. While your service providers can shrug off an outage with VOIP or your broadband connection they may not do so for POTS.
There's reliabilty in a legal sense (i.e., that there are legal requirements for POTS but none for VoIP or broadband)...then there's reliability in a practical sense. As a practical matter, I've had more POTS-related outages than I've had DSL- or VoIP-related outages over the years, including several days where I had DSL but no POTS because BellSouth messed up something in their pedestal outside my house (I'm on FTTC so my POTS and DSL both come out of cards in the ped.)
-SC
--
"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend
No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| A legal requirement doesn't necessarily translate into actual practice. For one thing, many service outages never come to the attention of the state public service commission (Hint: If you want your neighborhood to be on the short list for system upgrades, file a complaint with the PSC every single time you have a service outage lasting more than a few minutes, assuming you have more than one or two a year. Phone companies do not like it when their shortcomings actually come to the attention of the PSC, since they sometimes don't bother to report them, even when there's a legal requirement that they do so).
Also, remember that as big as phone companies are, Some Big Companies (not mentioning any by name specifically)  seem to look upon fines as just another cost of doing business. Not that they go out of their way to incur them, but if they do get slapped with a fine, I doubt that anyone at the company loses ten seconds worth of sleep over it. |
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