Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI
| reply to heaphus
Re: Heh..
The survey is incredibly skewed. Saying that BBR users represent the average Cable/DSL subscriber is just plain wrong. I am in no way defending the major ISP's (who wouldn't mind more bandwidth?) but a 1.5Mbit connection will keep the AVERAGE user appeased for quite some time. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Alphy  :
The survey is incredibly skewed. Saying that BBR users represent the average Cable/DSL subscriber is just plain wrong.
I agree. I would say that the most BBR users represent "the people who want more upstream bandwidth but are too cheap to pay for it so they whine" category. LOL
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Alphy
said by Alphy :
The survey is incredibly skewed. Saying that BBR users represent the average Cable/DSL subscriber is just plain wrong. I am in no way defending the major ISP's (who wouldn't mind more bandwidth?) but a 1.5Mbit connection will keep the AVERAGE user appeased for quite some time.
But that still doesn't account for Comcast using their funds to purchase rights to distribute content instead of upgrading their network and providing their users with more upload speed. Even the "average" user will want to videoconference in the near future like they've said we could for years.
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LordMalak
join:2003-07-02
Brazil
| said by tiger72 :
Even the "average" user will want to videoconference in the near future like they've said we could for years.
LOL!!!! The average users I know couldn't define the term videoconference if their lives depended on it. |
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BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | $20 webcam + nothing better to do + broadband = video conference
wait it's being done allready, it's the new pr0n craze now, but it can't be done ? |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to Alphy
said by Alphy :
The survey is incredibly skewed. Saying that BBR users represent the average Cable/DSL subscriber is just plain wrong. I am in no way defending the major ISP's (who wouldn't mind more bandwidth?) but a 1.5Mbit connection will keep the AVERAGE user appeased for quite some time.
I agree 100%
The BBR community are techies. For the most part, we love bandwidth and the internet. Not only do we want fiber speeds, but we want dialup prices. That isn't the way things work, but hey, we can dream can't we?
Sorry, but the BBR community is nowhere NEAR where the average user is today. Some of these users do like the content. However, they aren't looking for faster speeds. For instance, I have a friend who had Comcast HSI and I coaxed him into getting SBC DSL. He saves about $17 a month now and he doesn't notice the difference in speeds at all! Of course, he is just a common user.
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | reply to BonezX
not in quality. 352x240 isn't quality. 640x480+ is. |
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Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
clubs:
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :
said by Alphy :
The survey is incredibly skewed. Saying that BBR users represent the average Cable/DSL subscriber is just plain wrong. I am in no way defending the major ISP's (who wouldn't mind more bandwidth?) but a 1.5Mbit connection will keep the AVERAGE user appeased for quite some time.
I agree 100%
The BBR community are techies. For the most part, we love bandwidth and the internet. Not only do we want fiber speeds, but we want dialup prices. That isn't the way things work, but hey, we can dream can't we?
Sorry, but the BBR community is nowhere NEAR where the average user is today. Some of these users do like the content. However, they aren't looking for faster speeds. For instance, I have a friend who had Comcast HSI and I coaxed him into getting SBC DSL. He saves about $17 a month now and he doesn't notice the difference in speeds at all! Of course, he is just a common user.
You've hit the nail on the head...
BBR is comprised mainly of power users who know what they're doing, and how to do it. If they don't, they know who to ask.
Average Joe's benchmark of "internet speed" is simply raw page load times, how snappy the internet feels for him. Heck, even I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between 1.5 megabits down and 3.3 megabits down just viewing the CNN webpage or something. DNS server times are something ISP's should spend time making fast. That or giving us more webspace.
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
1 edit | reply to tiger72
said by tiger72 :
not in quality. 352x240 isn't quality. 640x480+ is.
Bull sheite... 640x480 is decidedly not quality video. Quality video is 1280x1024(+)x65536(or better). That is good enough.
Once, a long time ago I managed a couple of va.us college campuses. We had 45 MBit connections to the Internet. We thought that full screen video plus audio was what we had to have.... but then my IT manager thought she had to also have access to the Dean's audio/video channel (a bug in other words)....
Broadband... broadband is currently little more than a toy for idiots... and dishonest IT managers.
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cao1964
join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA
| reply to BonezX
Real computer + iSight + real fast upstream = equal things you have not even dreamed off.
What is interesting is how easy people just take what ever comes, not realizing that if they don't really care about speed hey why don't you go back to 2800 baud modems, same reason that I hate slow DSL and Cable speed.
Can't do what I really like doing. |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to DaDogs
said by DaDogs :
said by tiger72 :
not in quality. 352x240 isn't quality. 640x480+ is.
Bull sheite... 640x480 is decidedly not quality video. Quality video is 1280x1024(+)x65536(or better). That is good enough.
Once, a long time ago I managed a couple of va.us college campuses. We had 45 MBit connections to the Internet. We thought that full screen video plus audio was what we had to have.... but then my IT manager thought she had to also have access to the Dean's audio/video channel (a bug in other words)....
Broadband... broadband is currently little more than a toy for idiots... and dishonest IT managers.
I was being conservative and replying to the guy that said we have "video-conferencing" now. The average user doesn't need to see the raindrops on the windows 50 feet away (which would be possible with 1280x1024(+)x65536), however, being able to clearly see the other person's face would be noticeably better. 640x480 provides that. I'd prefer 1024x768x32bit however...
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  reply to tiger72
PAL TV isn't much better. You just want more frames per second, at least 24.
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| reply to cao1964
»www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productI···athId=29
How about one of these?
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
| reply to tiger72
Actually your suggestion that one could see rain drops on a window 50 feet away is decidedly beyone reason.
Lets look at it like this? What is the angle subtended by a pixel on a 17" monitor if it is driven at a 1280x1024 resolution.
Lets us presume the monitor is viewed at 24". A pixel is approximately (17.0/1280)=.01328" by (17.0/1024)=.01660".
We can average (and round) this for our purposes ((.01328+.01660)/2)=.015"x.015"
Now we need to figure the subtended angle. Since the tangent of an angle is equal to the opposite side over the adjacent side, and we know the opposite side is .015" and the adjacent side is 24", we can use the arctangent function to compute the subtended angle of a pixel as (atan(.015/24.0)) ~= .036 degrees
If we project this resolution to 50 feet we get 25 (50'/2') * .015" ~= .375" ... Now I have seen raindrops which were 3/8" inch in diameter, in West BFG Texas during a thunderstorm, but I've never seen one that was that big clinging to a window.
I stand by what I said... My experience demonstrates that we don't currently have the killer apps that need broadband, that when IT managers are given those toys they exploit them for their personal career advancement, and that said toys do not actually contribute the the growth or well functioning of those institutions besotted with the technology...
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| And now something completely different...
Here is some more math for those that understood that (or to confuse you even more).
([resolution] Width * Height) * Bits per pixel * Frames per second = raw bitrate in bits/second
raw bitrate in bits/second * compression codec factor = data rate in bits/second
line data rate in bits/second * protocol overhead factor = line data rate in bits/second
if webcam's line data rate in bits/second > provider's actual real-world thoroughput = trouble
else = good
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