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Logan 5
Silver and Black and blue in 2009
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
|  reply to Logan 5
Re: Ummmmmmm ok.
said by lrdvader:
These tracking services use spammer-style web bugs and HTML tricks to convince your client to rat you out, even if you've chosen not to send receipts. There's a big difference between requesting a receipt, and trying to sneak one out without your knowledge or consent.
Any chance of some proof to back this statememt up? I have not seen anything to indicate that this servce is malware or spyware. I'm not saying that maybe it isin't those things, but so far it has yet to be proven because the article has scant real information...
Can you please point out to me where in their Terms of Use for the product that it states that they use spyware or spam tricks? »www.didtheyreadit.com/index.php/···#privacy
Here's a link to a support FAQ that talks about the LACK of spyware in the product: »www.didtheyreadit.com/index.php/···#spyware
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"Many times a good overclock is nothing more than running an 'under-clocked' chip at it's true speed...." - L5, 7/3/04 | |
bebenj1
join:2004-07-03
Pittsburgh, PA
| said by Logan 5  :
said by lrdvader:
These tracking services use spammer-style web bugs and HTML tricks to convince your client to rat you out, even if you've chosen not to send receipts. There's a big difference between requesting a receipt, and trying to sneak one out without your knowledge or consent.
Any chance of some proof to back this statememt up? I have not seen anything to indicate that this servce is malware or spyware. I'm not saying that maybe it isin't those things, but so far it has yet to be proven because the article has scant real information...
Can you please point out to me where in their Terms of Use for the product that it states that they use spyware or spam tricks?
Have someone send you an email through this service, retrieve it with an email client that allows you to view the /FULL/ source of the HTML message, and examine that message - you will see that it contains additional HTML tags that were NOT part of the original message.
If you check the FAQ section on the company's site, you'll find "Does it work with non-HTML mail clients" and the answer "in short, no."
A "webbug" is often a 1x1 pixel transparent GIF image. What happens, is that when the HTML document (email in this case) is actually viewed, the client software will retrieve that invisible image. When it retrieves it, the server that it retrieves from then knows that the particular bug being retrieved indicates that the message it was hidden in has been viewed, it will know the IP address of the viewer, what software was used to read the message, etc. (Try »showmyip.com and scroll down - this is all information that is available to a server when an HTML request is made)
In order to also know how long the message was viewed, a more complex approach is required, but the same basic idea holds - something non-visible is added to the HTML of the email message. (for the technically inclined, the only way to determine how long the email was open is to either have dynamic content, IE constantly updated as long as the message is open, or embed some script, IE using the onclose() trigger to reconnect to the server when the message view is closed)
j | |
LrdVader
Premium
join:2003-12-18
San Diego, CA
| reply to Logan 5
said by Logan 5 :
Any chance of some proof to back this statememt up? I have not seen anything to indicate that this servce is malware or spyware. I'm not saying that maybe it isin't those things, but so far it has yet to be proven because the article has scant real information...
Sure. Here's a thread from another forum where this service was discussed, including posted full source from a test message showing the web bug:
»www.emailaddresses.com/forum/sho···id=21830
This particular service seems to stop at web bugs, but they have competitors that are slimier. Here's a nice discussion, on the same forum, of readnotify.com, which provides the same basic service but uses dirtier tricks (includes links to some pages dissecting those tricks):
»www.emailaddresses.com/forum/sho···id=22267
said by Logan 5 :
Can you please point out to me where in their Terms of Use for the product that it states that they use spyware or spam tricks? »www.didtheyreadit.com/index.php/···#privacy
Of course they aren't going to say "We use spammer tricks!" in their own TOU. But they don't say they don't, either. The privacy policy says they don't keep copies of messages - which is probably true, since that's not the point of the service. The point of the service *is* to spy on message recipients on behalf of senders, so of course there's absolutely nothing in the policy to preclude that.
said by Logan 5 :
Here's a link to a support FAQ that talks about the LACK of spyware in the product: »www.didtheyreadit.com/index.php/···#spyware
That's really more a question of definitions than anything else. If you define "spyware" as being a program that gets installed on your computer and spies on you, then their statement is true. But note exactly what that statement is. They say that the product doesn't contain spyware, not that it doesn't spy.
It's also worth noting the wording of the rest of that answer: "We respect the privacy of our users." Once again, strictly true, but misleading. They respect the privacy of their users because their users aren't the ones being spied on. They don't say a word about the privacy of the recipients of their bugged messages, since they're in the business of violating that. | |
keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
2 edits | reply to Logan 5
it is up to their lawyers to present the evidence
From their website it sounds invasive enough for me:
»www.didtheyreadit.com/index.php?···&affad=1
quote:
When you use didtheyreadit, every e-mail that you send is invisibly tracked without alerting the recipient.
But when they read your message, you will immediately receive the following information:
1 When, exactly, your email was opened.
2 How long your email remained opened.
3 Where, geographically, your email was viewed.
If you read the ruling, the basis is that the user doesn't know the tracking is going on, can't refuse the tracked email and have it returned to sender, and that personal information is gathered, recorded and transmitted in violation of French law.
As the others noted, MSOE, Netscape email, and other email clients let you know when you are about to open a tracked email, or let you have the option of sending an acknowledgement or not. And those acknowledgements only reveal that the email was opened.
So using didyoureadit's service is illegal for French residents, businesses and organizations.
If didtheyreadit is doing something milder in the USA or UK, why are they being so invasive and secretive in France?
And if didtheyreadit isn't being so invasive and secretive in France, how could their legal team have messed up so badly presenting the evidence to the court?
More likely didtheyreadit's website is was created to fulfill marketing objectives just like the websites of most companies, and is omitting details.
I'm sure their legal team did the best job they could of putting the best appearance on didtheyreadits services. And inspite of that, the prosecution was able to successfully make the case that the service contravened French laws on privacy and data protection.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ+Submit suspected malware+Security FAQ) | |
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