pr7577
join:2004-03-14
Thunder Bay, ON
| $50 dollar phone bill - dialed by my computer
 I opened my phone bill to find a charge to an island near New Zealand called 'Tokelau' for 25 minutes at $2/min. The phone company took it off my bill, this time! Next time I'm out of luck. They try to tell me that someone on my computer must have clicked and chosen to go to this website that then charged to my phone bill. I called the police 'phone busters' because an article appeared in the local paper (Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada).
I have a DSL connection, how is this possible? Was it really a selection by me or was it an automatic 'dialer' of some sort that invoked itself?
Since then I have installed a router and am trying Trojan Hunter as well using Spybot S&D and Adaware. I also have a software firewall.
I so much want this not to happen again that I put 'toll denial' on my phone and can no longer make a long distance call. I'll use a phone card until I know I am safe.
Any good ideas about this?? |
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makaze
Premium
join:2004-02-23
USA
| more than likely a dialer program got installed..
Do you have a regular phone line hooked to your pc?
if so, do you use it? if not unplug it.. it will save you from these problems in the future.
may want to run a spybot/adaware scan also tho.. and remove the program that did it. |
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pr7577
join:2004-03-14
Thunder Bay, ON | To Acidtone,
No, there is no additional phone line connected, just the DSL connection. |
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salahx
join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO | reply to pr7577
It might not have been you, but a crammer:
»Need help with phone scam!!! |
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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
 ·Shaw
| reply to pr7577
You should have told them that you don't have a line connected to your modem so it would be impossible for your computer to make any kind of call (called modem hijacking).
That said however do you have a calling card as perhaps someone used that to make the call (ie fraud), or someone used your line to make the call. As an example of that some people we know had a son who had a party and I guess some of his 'friends' thought it would be funny to make a bunch of service calls and such while at the party. Imagine the nice surprise when his parents got the bill.
You can get a 900 block put on your phone and another service where you have to enter a password to make long distance calls. Also note some foreign countries have pretty pathetic phone systems so you might not see a long distance call to that country for months on your bill.
Blake
--
Vendor: Firewall Logging Software »www.SonicLogger.com - SonicWall and 3Com »www.LinkLogger.com - Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel |
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TakeTheFifth
join:2004-04-20
Anjou, QC
| reply to pr7577
PR, they most likely agreed to take it off your bill because they could not find a call record to justify putting it on your bill in the first place. Tokelau is a known dialer destination, and they know that.
Telco billing has always been a problem, and that grew worse with deregulation around the world; more people are now involved, and very "creative" routing arragements are the norm. Calls from Canada to Tokelau go through at least 4 different carriers, some of which could not be called "world class" by any stretch of the imagination. So chances are their billing and reporting systems are less than adequate...
Off the soap box. As Blake suggested, block off any service you do not use, just in case.
Lastly, if you have an outside demark (the grey N.I.D. box), put a padlock on it; Call me paranoïd but having an exterior RJ-11 jack for anyone to use is not my cup of tea.
Regards,
Phil |
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Cybertoad
join:2001-11-08
Houston, TX
| reply to pr7577
Are you positive that the number was even dialed from
your location? I've been seeing a lot on the rise
where phone companies are putting charges and call
logs on the wrong customer bill!
Just a side note, "Tokelau" is the location of the
".tk" domain name extension and »www.dot.tk
which offers FREE domain names. You didn't call
them for technical support or anything did you? |
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pr7577
join:2004-03-14
Thunder Bay, ON
| reply to Link Logger
To Blake,
Are we sure that the dialer cannot use a dsl line to call out? I mean after all, it is a regular phone line.
To Phil
Are we sure that a call was actually made? I was led to believe that I clicked on something on the screen and that initiated the charges.
I'm a Phil too. pr |
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pr7577
join:2004-03-14
Thunder Bay, ON
| reply to Cybertoad
To Cybertoad,
No, I don't think there was any dialing involved, unless a dsl connection can be used by your pc? You would need a normal modem i would think to grab a regular phone line. That is one of the puzzling parts. I think that some of the other posters may be right that either I was 'crammed' and it had nothing to do with my pc or I unwittingly clicked on some pop-up and it allowed this company to charge to me. It doesn't explain how they got my phone number, though.
Phil R. |
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BurntCricket
Gotta Do What Ya Gotta Do
Premium
join:2000-09-02
Here
clubs:  | reply to pr7577
It could be downright fraud >> lets bill 1000 numbers and see how many pay without looking.
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The only vote that's wasted is one that isn't cast. |
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DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
| said by BurntCricket  :
It could be downright fraud >> lets bill 1000 numbers and see how many pay without looking.
Been there, done that. :-(
The very 1st thing I would do is have the telco block anything (and everything) you are pretty sure you don't need to use!
After various "cramming incidents" (i.e. fraud, or at least bad billing), and other incidents (like some teenager coming over and calling her boyfriend LD on our phone), I've learned this lesson "the hard way". At the present time, our POTS line has a "toll call block" (no ability to make LD calls, EXCEPT for "toll free 800/877/etc calls), a "3rd party billing block" (no more ability for anyone to "cram" on our phone), and a "collect call block" (because at least one of the cramming incidents was AT&T claiming we accepted a call, we never received!).
While it may seem that we can't use our POTS line for anything (with these blocks on), that's not really the case. The blocks don't stop incoming calls (except for "collect calls", or other calls where the receiver pays), nor do the blocks prevent us from calling "toll free numbers" (which means we can easily use 800 number "calling cards" to call out). But the blocks do mean that nobody can trying "billing to our phone" (a common way to commit fraud IMHO). The blocks also mean that we can't goof and accidentally use the expensive telco LD (or have a visitor use our phone, and stick us with the bill). Since we have no desire to accept "collect calls", dial 900 numbers, etc, this is no real problem for us. Of course, we won't be able to buy services and bill them to our phone line, but who cares? If we won't to buy something, I'll arrange a "single use CC number" via my credit card company, and pay that way (I won't try "billing to my phone number")!
Also, watch your phone bill "like a hawk", and call the telco and ask if anything isn't 100% clear! Many charges may be legit, but many "iffy ones" are designed to "look legit" at first glance! Crammer's have realized that bills are getting more complicated to read. So they will often describe their charges as things like "phone service fee", that are easy to ignore. The theory is that even if someone sees it, they may just assume (falsely) that it's just another fee of tax being added by their telco!
And even when the charge is "legit", it doesn't hurt to understand the charge. For example, I had arranged to get on a LD phone plan that didn't have a minimum monthly fee (since we almost never dial LD calls "direct", preferring VoIP or "pre-paid calling cards"). So I was a little surprised to notice a charge for $1.50/month + taxes for LD service. What was it? Turns out that while the LD plan I was on didn't have a fee, my telco charges you a fee of $1.50/month to have a LD carrier (any LD carrier) listed on the phone line! After discovering this, we had the LD carrier removed from our line, and a LD call block put on. Not a big savings, but it's a little money we are no longer paying!
NOTE: Not having LD on your line doesn't mean you can't call LD, just that you aren't officially a customer of a LD carrier. If you use a LD carrier, without being a customer of theirs, you will generally pay around $3.00/min as a so-called "casual user". So be sure to also put a "toll call block" on your phone line, if you remove a listed LD carrier (so there is no way to "goof" and actually make a hugely expensive LD call). And remember, a "toll call block" does NOT prevent you from using "pre-paid calling cards" (as you call a "toll free number" to use them)! |
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TakeTheFifth
join:2004-04-20
Anjou, QC
| reply to pr7577
said by pr7577 :
To Phil
Are we sure that a call was actually made? I was led to believe that I clicked on something on the screen and that initiated the charges.
(my highlight) This is what the Bell rep told you based on what happens to most people with dial-up connections. As suggested by others, if you don't make overseas calls, I would enquire about having it blocked; There might be a one time service fee, but could be worth it. Based on the circumstances, I do not think that call was ever made from your house.
Regards,
Phil |
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PavTheMan
join:2002-05-10
UK
clubs:
| reply to salahx
said by salahx :
It might not have been you, but a crammer:
»Need help with phone scam!!!
Thanks for the heads-up on this nasty little scam, salahx.
--
:] |
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pr7577
join:2004-03-14
Thunder Bay, ON
| reply to TakeTheFifth
To Phil,
Yes, I did put a toll denial on my line. Unfortunately that means I cannot make long distance calls from my phone, but it would give me a reason to say that no 'telephone long distance' charges should be on my bill. It would not however, stop 3rd party billing, would it? Are there not services out there that I could use through my computer (ie. pc sex webs) that would then charge to my phone number? How can I stop that??
Regards,
Phil R. |
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rstrandb
Crazy like a fox
Premium
join:2003-04-17
Albany, GA | reply to pr7577
Seeing as how VOIP uses internet connections, is it possible a dialer had been developed to utilize DSL connections? I hope I'm being paranoid because this opens a whole new can of worms to deal with.
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What....me worry? |
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DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
1 edit | reply to pr7577
said by pr7577 :
I did put a toll denial on my line. Unfortunately that means I cannot make long distance calls from my phone
Actually no. I have a "toll call block" on my line (my normal telco line that is, not my Packet8 VoIP line), and it does not prevent me from making LD calls from that phone line.
What a "toll call block" does, is prevent you from making LD calls that are billed directly to your local phone number. However, it does not prevent you from calling "toll free" (800/877/etc) LD numbers. And since most "pre-paid calling cards" are accessed by calling "toll free numbers", you can easily (and cheaply) make LD calls indirectly via "pre-paid calling cards"!!!
If you don't already have a decent (low cost per minute) "calling card", may I suggest "One Suite" (promo code "03AQ88110" should get you a free 20 minute "signup bonus"), as an easy and low cost option? Minimum charge is only $10 every 6 months (to keep your account active), and they only charge $0.029/min (or $0.025/min, if you are lucky enough to be in one of the cities that has a "local access number) to call any of the 48 continental U.S. states.
said by pr7577 :
It would not however, stop 3rd party billing, would it?
No, a "toll call block" does not block "3rd party billing". To block 3rd party billing, you need a "3rd party billing block" (sometimes referred to as an "anti-cramming block"). Not all telcos offer such a block, but it doesn't hurt to ask!
Also, don't forget to also include a "collect call block". Even if you never accept collect calls, having the block will prevent some telco from claiming that you did (and putting the charge on your bill)! I remember fighting a so-called "collect call" (that nobody in the house ever accepted) from AT&T for close to 3 months, despite already having a "toll call block" on our phone line. Apparently, AT&T's attitude was that they "stand by their system" as it's 100% accurate (several AT&T reps actually told me this)! The only reason I got the charges reversed eventually, was that my local telco (CenturyTel) decided to "reverse the charges" and send the bill back to AT&T (AT&T itself was still claiming that they were right)! It was after that incident, that I talked with my CenturyTel rep, and learned that I could put a "collect call block" (and a "3rd party billing block") on my line (remember I already had a "toll call block" on the line, when AT&T billed me for this supposed "collect call")!
said by pr7577 :
Are there not services out there that I could use through my computer (ie. pc sex webs) that would then charge to my phone number?
Yes. It seems to be a common way for shady businesses to bill. They get your phone number, and then later claim that you authorized them to bill you that way.
said by pr7577 :
How can I stop that??
If your telco offers "3rd party billing blocks" (sometimes referred to as an "anti-cramming" block), get that put on your line, and that will pretty much stop "3rd parties" (non-telcos) from billing your phone. However, you would still want a "collect call block", to prevent other telcos from claiming you own them money.
OTOH: If your local phone company doesn't offer these blocks, you are pretty much SOL. In that case, about the best you can do is watch your phone bill "like a hawk", and call your local phone company if/when you see any charge that even looks like it might not be legit. After all, if the charge really is legit, the phone company rep can explain it to you. And if not, you are already talking to the rep you can "dispute" the charge with.... |
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beck
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-29
On The Road
 ·AllureHost
 ·Qwest.net
| reply to pr7577
I'll second using OneSuite.
I've used them for a couple years and been very happy with them. NO strange charges etc. My Fax also works with them. Especially, I like the control you have to setup how it works for you and the phone numbers you can dial from etc on their web site. I mostly use the local numbers to me to dial to, but they also have an 800 number you can call to do long distance which costs a bit more. And if you don't call long distance much, you have 6 months to use your $10.00.
I also have everything blocked on my phone. No LD etc. I just have the number in my phone to call onesuite and then the long distance number I want. Toll free numbers still work like normal.
--
No jobs for me! I am now a certified bum. I hope I can make a living at it. |
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Buddel
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Premium
join:2004-03-06
EU | reply to pr7577
AFAIK, a dialer cannot dial if you use DSL. However, it an ISDN card or a fax modem is installed, a dialer can dial any number without your knowledge (happened to a friend of mine not too long ago).:( |
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DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
| said by Buddel :
AFAIK, a dialer cannot dial if you use DSL. However, it an ISDN card or a fax modem is installed, a dialer can dial any number without your knowledge (happened to a friend of mine not too long ago).:(
Yes, some "malware" (virus, trojan horse, etc) on your computer can trick a "modem" (or an ISDN card) into making LD "toll calls". OTOH if you have the telco put a "toll call block" on your line, it doesn't matter (except from an "annoyance standpoint") if your modem is trying to call LD as the "toll call block" will prevent it from making toll calls on that line!
OTOH: That doesn't stop some business (web sites?) from doing "3rd party billing" to charge your phone number for something. I have already fought such "cramming" myself, and while the odds of getting the charges "reversed" can be pretty good, it can still be a major hassle (and waste a lot of time) to deal with.
That's why I have learned my lesson, and now have a full suite of "blocks" on my phone line: "toll call block" (prevents "toll calls" from being dialed out on the line), "3rd party billing block" (prevents non-telcos from charging to your phone bill), and a "collect call block" (prevents telcos from claiming you accepted collect calls).
But even with those blocks on the line, I can still receive any normal phone call, make "local" phone calls, and call "toll free numbers" (and from there use a "calling card"). OTOH I no longer have any ability to call 900 numbers, or receive "collect calls" (but them are the breaks). |
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