Re: Anti-MS Whiners in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r8245529 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:05:27 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:05:27 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8254052 RayW :
said by Combat Chuck See Profile:
So microsoft was anticompetitive based on something a phone monkey told you?
This at a time when many people refered to the world wide web as "Netscape".



Not the common phone monkey, several layers up in the hierarchy. I was the monkey, the Microsoft rep and one of our managers were doing the talking with input from us trench workers. But even if a common phone monkey knew about what was going on, that a promise to at least one major client was not only broken, but destroyed to work on a certain project, then I guess that might be a slight clue as what was going on. Microsoft can not stand competition, at any any cost.

You are right in what appears to be your hidden point. They did not do anything outright illegal, at the time. And no contracts were broken because although Microsoft mail did not scale as promised, it worked as specified on paper. And everyone knows that an American's verbal contract is not worth anything, especially from big business and lawyers.

said by Combat Chuck See Profile:

Point is netscape didn't lose money and probably actually gained money because Microsoft made it so home users didn't have to worry about downloading a browser. You can't claim somebody undercut your business when in fact you are giving away the item for free.


That is where you are wrong. Did you ever read or fill out a Netscape agreement back then? Only if you were a select group like a student could you use it for free. If you were not, then you were suppose to pay. I know I did not since I was a student. It was 'honor-ware', which many people interpret as 'free-ware'. It was sometime after the advent of the Microsoft browser and the fact that free and present outweighed cost and have to get, that Netscape woke up to the fact that although they were better, they were outclassed in the market and went free.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8254052 Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:30:08 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8251043 Combat Chuck : So microsoft was anticompetitive based on something a phone monkey told you?
This at a time when many people refered to the world wide web as "Netscape".

Point is netscape didn't lose money and probably actually gained money because Microsoft made it so home users didn't have to worry about downloading a browser. You can't claim somebody undercut your business when in fact you are giving away the item for free.
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Infogrames != Atari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8251043 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:56:36 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8249313 RayW :
said by Combat Chuck See Profile:
They got slammed for integrating HTML interfaces into the OS; which really didn't cut into anyones business (Netscape was selling servers at the time so you could argue MS was helping them out by making it trivial for a computer newbie to fire up a browser).


Actually, around 1993-4 (if I remember the date right) I was on a conference call to Microsoft about long overdue patches to Microsoft mail (remember that fiasco?). After some hemming and hawing, the Microsoft rep finally told us that our 6 months overdue patch would not be forth-coming since the programmers had been pulled for the kill Netscape program. Now that was not an exact quote from her, but the words "pulled", "programmers", "kill", and "Netscape" are in the right relationship. To put this in perspective, I worked at a 25000 (yes 25K) person facility that was desperately trying to get 'wired'. Even if only half of that got wired, that is a lot of $$$ to tell to get lost for a feud. But you can see it worked.

And yes, I still am a M$ user since I have a family who does not want the slightly more difficult alternative, and I work for the US Gov that Microsoft finally got wise to and paid political payola to the powers-that-be.

Oh, and Netscape was as easy to bring up as IE after that. The only difference was, one came with your Microsoft package and was labeled free, and the other you had to look for and was listed as being free only for certain people like students.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8249313 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:06:22 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8249097 Combat Chuck : They got slammed for integrating HTML interfaces into the OS; which really didn't cut into anyones business (Netscape was selling servers at the time so you could argue MS was helping them out by making it trivial for a computer newbie to fire up a browser). Now they're potentially going to cut into the profits of several companies and you don't really think they're going to have any problems?

I think this is a great idea; but I also think MS is opening themselves up to another anti-trust lawsuit. I feel bad for Microsoft; at this point no matter what they do they're going to PO someone.
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Infogrames != Atari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8249097 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:41:51 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245598 sadowski : Well, I've been testing their alpha AV/Firewall/Backup/Update thingy and I must say I can understand why they say they don't know what if anything they can do with it because I see DOJ and individual companies throwing fits and lawsuits over it. "They're using their size to crush my business!" The consumer isn't a priority in these areas. But I can assure you if they released this thing as it is and for free then the govt. and competitors would be screaming like stuck pigs. Even if they charged for AV updates (which I assume they would) then the competition would still be screaming about the stuff being included with Windows.

I'm not in any way saying what I've been testing is or ever will be a product or related to the above announcement, but I am saying they sort of lose no matter what they do in this area if they do much of anything of substance or nothing at all for that matter.

Btw, didn't they in earlier years ship an AV with a 6 month free update deal (I forget from whom) with the OS and basicaly people didn't want to pay for the updates and complained they weren't free? Like I said, you lose either way.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stole]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245598 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:52:16 EDT Re: Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245529 AthlGrond :
said by pnh102 See Profile:
quote:
if they release a more sophisticated firewall application they'll be slammed for invading the turf of firewall vendors

I don't see how this could be considered a legitimate complaint. Linux and other operating systems have had these capabilities for years. A good OS-based firewall is only one part of the solution when it comes to network security. It could never by itself take the place of a hardware firewall.
The legal world is a scary place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245529 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:40:46 EDT Anti-MS Whiners http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245495 pnh102 :
quote:
if they release a more sophisticated firewall application they'll be slammed for invading the turf of firewall vendors

I don't see how this could be considered a legitimate complaint. Linux and other operating systems have had these capabilities for years. A good OS-based firewall is only one part of the solution when it comes to network security. It could never by itself take the place of a hardware firewall.
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The tobacco industry is more respectable than the telemarketing industry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8245495 Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:59 EDT