Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r7792169 en Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:19:59 EDT Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:19:59 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800636 pnh102 :
said by tiger72 See Profile:
what about us? i will have paid into Soc Sec for 40 years, and i wont get s---. thanks.

That's exactly what pisses me off the most about the Baby Boomer generation. The whole Me-First, I-Got-Mine-I-Don't-Care-If-You-Get-Yours mentality... UGH.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800636 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:25:56 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800530 oliphant5 : 3) Money isn't invested and thus accumulation is eaten at by inflation. Of course there isn't going to be any money at the end.
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Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800530 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:15:51 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800315 TheGhost : Problem is, you paid in for 40 years, but not enough to cover what you will "take out". That is the "unfair" part.
The problem is basically two-fold:
1) SSI was meant to be a stop-gap for people who did not have enough at retirement for some unforeseen circumstances. The problem with this is that the "greedy" and "selfish" boomers have not been saving as they should have, they have instead been buying their "needed" BMWs and spa trips and the like, and have not saved as they should have. (There is a Grasshopper and Ants story in here somewhere).
2) People are living longer, though the retirement age has not been raised enough. Boomers have ensure that they will make it out relatively unscathed still being able to retire early, while pushing the burden on future generations.

Never has a generation been so selfish and greedy as to impoverish future generations for their own benefit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7800315 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:54:53 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799590 tiger72 : what about us? i will have paid into Soc Sec for 40 years, and i wont get shit. thanks.
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UMKC:15051/20689 kbps RoadRunner: 2092/369 kbps]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799590 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:33:34 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799544 tiger72 : actually, that's a pretty good idea...
Tax cigarettes and alcohol even more, and let 50% of the taxes go to the Fed and it goes into elderly benefits; the rest goes to the state.

edit: LOL, how the heck do speeders increase expenditures?
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 12:29:54]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799544 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:28:16 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799519 tiger72 : or do what other states without an income tax (like Texas) have done: raise property taxes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799519 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:24:59 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799478 garagerock : Thing is, that isn't going to happen. Remember, the Boomer generation is much larger than any other age group. With life expectancies lengthening almost every year, that adds up to a disaster waiting to happen.

We too, will be old someday. Compassion for older people isn't just the right thing to do for them-it's the right thing to do for us, as someday we'll be in their shoes.

Ever seen Logan's Run? Do you propose killing everyone off ceremoniously at age 75? What happens when you turn that age? Will the rules somehow change?

It is really convenient to dispose of old people, until you're the old person in question. That, in a nutshell, is what is happening now.
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"The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 12:30:50]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799478 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:18:15 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799307 NOVA_Guy :
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:
If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote.


The old people of America should tremble in fear if the young and middle class ever do start to turn out voting in the same numbers that they do-- then they can find out what "the welfare of the many" truly is.

And to give you a hint, it doesn't involve robbing money from the pockets of younger people to pay for Social Security, Medicare, a prescription drug benefit, or anything of the like. When Social Security was established, wasn't the expected lifespan something like 72-75 years?

I'll make every old person collected Social Security right now a deal: promise to die at 75, and I'll promise to pay for your life and heath until then without complaining. :)

Yes, I know it sounds cruel, heartless, and uncaring. However, one must realize that in tough times the fat must be trimmed from spending programs. It is unfair to raise taxes just so that some people who have already led full lives can continue to do so on the backs of younger generations. I'm not in favor of eliminating Social Security or Medicare; I'm just in favor of trimming it to a more reasonable level in an effort to make things fair for all of us.
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said by garagerock See Profile:
In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.


Hmmm... If we wasted less money with Medicare, then maybe some of the old farts would die off and the AARP wouldn't have so much power... :) And yes, this is intended as a joke (at least somewhat intended that way, as there is a sad kernel of truth to it)

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has two elderly grandmothers and two parents who are just about to start "coming of age". I'm not a big fan of the way that some of these "entitlement" systems have been set up to make the young, working folks support these old retired people for the rest of their lives. Some generation will eventually be screwed with the way things are going, and I'm afraid that generation will be mine. :(
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Cox cable: the hallmark questionable business practices and lousy cable service!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799237 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:45:00 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799014 garagerock : Please show me some statistics not cooked up in the Fox News headquarters to prove that point.

Like this gem, for instance:
quote:
In 1995, median household net worth generally increased with the age of the householder,
rising from $7,428 for householders under the age of 35, to $92,399 for householders 65 years of
age and older.

»www.census.gov/hhes/www/wealth/1···hts.html

Median, again. $92k is pretty good, but not outrageously wealthy as this thread would suggest. And can you define "senior" for me...do you mean 55 and older, 65 and older...this makes a huge difference.

Not to mention this gem:
»factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=e···0US.html

Fact: Senior citizens are a full 10% of the individuals in this country living below the poverty level. Not 10% of Senior Citizens, mind you-10% of the population living below the poverty line, of all age groups (33,899,812 people living below the poverty level, which is HORRIBLE and a whole other discussion, as that is 11% of the total population of the United States).

Again, I ask that you reply with the facts...not rhetoric. The Census is an accurate listing of these statistics, so if you want to argue the point that their stats are flawed, take it up with the government-I'm just reporting what they have found to be the truth.
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"The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7799014 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:19:34 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798796 joebear29 :
said by garagerock See Profile:

While I won't argue that there are rich senior citizens, I can honestly tell you that they are surely not the richest group of people...to wit:
»www.census.gov/hhes/income/incom···ab7.html

This page from the Census of 2000 shows that the median income for individuals 65 and over is $19,688 (in 2001) per year. Hardly rich by American standards.


Wealth is different from income. Seniors have the most wealth of any age group.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798796 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:52:20 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798723 garagerock :
quote:
Its because the senior citizens in this country are already the richest group of people


While I won't argue that there are rich senior citizens, I can honestly tell you that they are surely not the richest group of people...to wit:
»www.census.gov/hhes/income/incom···ab7.html

This page from the Census of 2000 shows that the median income for individuals 65 and over is $19,688 (in 2001) per year. Hardly rich by American standards.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798723 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:43:01 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798263 KrK : There are ways to help the situation by boosting the economy too, but they won't happen either... (and no, Bush's Tax cuts aren't it)...

Example: Throw out the entire existing tax code, in it's entirety. Null. Void. Replace with a simple flat tax. That right there would massively boost the economy, give the majority of Americans a nice shot in the arm, plus take a huge burden off of business, large and small. That would kick ass for the economy, unless, of course, you were a tax accountant or Tax Attorney or worked for the IRS, in which case, you just got unemployed.

Funnel all the gain in revenue straight into debt payment, while cutting entitlements. End all Subsidies to industries and groups, this would cause some pain, but actually be beneficial in the long run.

However, again, as mentioned, all this is political suicide. This I think is why it will take a "Crash" followed by a single leader to make it happen.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798263 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:39:58 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798193 KrK :
said by garagerock See Profile:
quote:
Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations


»www.fb.com/issues/analysis/Fed_B···002.html

As I have repeatedly stated, there isn't a politician alive that would risk his/her political skin by making those sacrifices.
Yes, I said that too Garagerock, like you said, preaching to the choir here.... Look:
quote:
However, none of this is popular, so, none of our politicians will dare do it. Thus, instead of acting in advance, we'll just crash.

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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798193 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:30:42 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798147 pnh102 :
said by garagerock See Profile:
I believe if you make more than a million dollars a year in nontaxed retirement income (hello Bob Dole), you shouldn't receive benefits PERIOD. Obviously you don't need a safety net if you're already pulling down A MILLION FREAKIN' DOLLARS A YEAR THAT'S ALREADY UNTAXED.

EXACTLY!!!!! That's exactly the problem. Its because the senior citizens in this country are already the richest group of people. Of course there are poor seniors who don't have a nickel to their name and one can make the case for helping those people out, but as many seniors already have significant financial assets, I don't see a reason as to why they should get extra money out of my hide. We should not have to pay social security and medicare taxes so that people like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Warren Buffet and the elderly couple which already owns their house can feed off of the public trough.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798147 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:22:51 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798057 garagerock :
quote:
Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations


»www.fb.com/issues/analysis/Fed_B···002.html

As I have repeatedly stated, there isn't a politician alive that would risk his/her political skin by making those sacrifices. The link I provided shows some interesting figures. Yes, Social Security and Medicare expenses are the biggest chunk. This is not going to change for the better, rather it's going to get worse as the population ages and retires.

You guys that so boldy exclaim you'll never see a dime out of Social Security or use any of the benefits provided by these programs are harping at the wrong choir. You may not use them, but countless others do, and you can't tell me none of you have friends, relatives, coworkers, etc. that use them or will use them in the near future. Our country decided back in the 1930's to make sure there was a safety net for all Americans-get over it. The idea we could return to the Herbert Hoover days is, frankly, laughable at this juncture of history, given the enormous political and financial clout that the older generation owns, and will only get bigger as the demographic known as Baby Boomer starts retiring and needing these benefits. That FACT will not change, and all the hair pulling and name calling is not going to sway millions of Americans from changing their minds on this issue.

Does the system need some reforms? You betcha. I believe if you make more than a million dollars a year in nontaxed retirement income (hello Bob Dole), you shouldn't receive benefits PERIOD. Obviously you don't need a safety net if you're already pulling down A MILLION FREAKIN' DOLLARS A YEAR THAT'S ALREADY UNTAXED.

We can't reinvent the wheel, but we can address the growing problem of healthcare expenditures that will eventually bankrupt us all unless this issue is addressed.
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"The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted" James Madison]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7798057 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:08:13 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797988 murdok6100 : Kind of "Resembles" Communism dont it?

Well, not YET anyway......

Murdok610]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797988 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:52:13 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797406 BosstonesOwn : In the words of my Linux Firewall : Buffer Overrun Detected .... Restarting System

:) man that state needs a reboot :)
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Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797406 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:51:04 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797339 KrK : In my opinion, due to the political damage, the politicians won't act before it causes a "crash". What I mean by a crash is we'll reach a point where we'll no longer be able to borrow to sustain spending (because we'll be up to eyeballs in debt already) and the tax revenue won't cover the outlay.

At that point, massive social disorder will occur. Basically, we'll default. It will be one of those "Sorry, effective tommorrow, no more Medicare, no more Social Security, no more welfare checks..." etc etc

This in turn will crash the economy, and drag the whole world in (When the USA defaults on the national debt, it will hit the entire world).

You will see rampant civil unrest, and a suspension of the Constitution (Marshall law) and the creation of a military style state that will last an indeterminate period of time. There will be long lines, stores with no food on the shelves, gas stations with no gas, etc etc

It will be interesting to see what comes out of it... but for a while, things will be very, very bad.

Note: This could be averted, by painful but necessary fiscal restraint, by a hard-but-necessary cutting off of excess social welfare benefits, and by a pay-down-the debt quit borrowing priority. We'd also have to curtail our foreign activities and at least for awhile greatly scale back military operations.

However, none of this is popular, so, none of our politicians will dare do it. Thus, instead of acting in advance, we'll just crash.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7797339 Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:13:16 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7795075 pnh102 :
said by TACSPEED See Profile:
I've payed into Social Security and/or Medicare for almost 40 years. I be damn sure to do everything in my power to make sure I get it when I retire!

LOL... fat chance of that happening. I've been paying in for 10 years and I already know I will never see a penny of that.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7795075 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:47:04 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7795063 pnh102 :
said by KrK See Profile:
When the tax revenues of the current tax base can no longer support the expenses of social welfare programs of the older citizens, that's when the crash comes, the collapse, the downfall of the U.S.A....

Yup, you are absolutely right. I don't think it will lead to a crash or the downfall of America, but it will lead to a lot of people significantly rethinking their selfish mentality of stealing from younger people to pad their own wallets.

A good number of friends of mine that are my age (Generation X) who are having kids have already decided to stop feeding the tax monster by having one parent stay at home. They figure that after all the costs of daycare, higher taxes, extra car insurance, etc. are all taken out of a second income, that they would be making only about $3 an hour at most. So by living on one income, they deny the beast the food it needs to feed itself. My only fear is that the old fogie lobby is so powerful that they will end up pushing through laws that will confiscate peoples' property in order to pay for "entitlements".
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7795063 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:45:56 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7794940 KrK : The Trust fund exists.

The problem is, it's only on paper.

It's numbers in a ledger. There's nothing to back it up, because that's spent.

So you have a mountain of non-existent cash.

When the tax revenues of the current tax base can no longer support the expenses of social welfare programs of the older citizens, that's when the crash comes, the collapse, the downfall of the U.S.A....

... and it's not that far off.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7794940 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:35:07 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7794903 91439306 :
said by garagerock See Profile:


Far easier to do than raising income taxes. No state wants to be known as the state that rose income taxes so high it drove the population away (er, wait-isn't that California?)


Connecticut, at the end of the 1980s.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7794903 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:31:56 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7793389 TACSPEED :
quote:
No, they voted for it because it passes the buck to someone else. To paraphrase one congressman, any program that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
I've payed into Social Security and/or Medicare for almost 40 years. I be damn sure to do everything in my power to make sure I get it when I retire!
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7793389 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 20:15:54 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7793061 Frank :
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:


/rant mode on

Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare. They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too. Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.

I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.

If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote.

/rant mode off.

paul


I dont quite understand what you are saying due to the fact that you seem to be talking about federal taxes. In reality the problem that the other guy was talking about (with the old fogies remark) was regarding state taxes.

The majority of the senior citizens in florida have migrated there from other states in order to retire, which means: NO, they havent paid Florida state taxes for 30-40-50 years nor have they supported Florida in anyway and by them moving there they cause Florida to spend more taxes on them which is what I think the other guy was complaining about.

then again.......... that's just my opinion, I could be wrong
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Stop using P2P!, buy pirated cd's instead :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7793061 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:46:17 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792760 oliphant5 :
said by kilingspam See Profile:
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?

Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.

Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?


The energy costs aren't part of the budget. They are paid through higher energy rates. The energy distributors like Edison International and SDG&E are the ones who took the hit and now are getting paid back through higher rates. Edison International just announced a price rollback for large energy users because they have reclaimed a portion of their losses and it was large energy users who took the biggest increases (I pay, even as a residential user up to .25/kWh for electricity »Re: Tough Love for California? ).

The $50 billion (as there was initially a $12B surplus was solely caused by excessive spending including 44,000 new gov't jobs during what was supposed to be a hiring freeze. Revenue exceeded both population and inflation in the state while spending increases DOUBLED population and inflation.

The ones who raided the state for billions was Davis and his cronies in the legislature.

As for Halliburton, the contract was temporary (only to fight oil fires and assess damage to the Iraqi oil infrastructure and repair it if necessary, NOT FOR REBUILDING ALL OF IRAQ) and they were the only U.S. corporation who had the resources to do it. It wasn't some scheme...the gov't simply had no alternatives.
said by Lt. Gen. Robert B. Flowers, the commander of the Corps of Engineers:
No other contractor could satisfy mission requirements in the time. available
Remember, the thought at the time was that there would be literally hundreds of oil fires which turned out not to be the case and thus there is no billions being paid out. They money paid is only for work done. Little work means about $50 million so far of a possible max of $7 billion. Hardly a conspiracy. Since then, the U.S. Army has put other contracts up for bid. »www.enr.com/news/bizlabor/archiv···411.asp
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[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 19:20:04]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792760 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:16:28 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792169 joebear29 :
said by kilingspam See Profile:
You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?


California did not lose 36 billion to a fake energy crisis. The crisi cam about because first it botched the deregulation by limiting the amount the utilities could charge then they locked themselves into long term contracts right before the prices went up.

Yes, there were some shenanigans, but most of the money lost was due to bad deregulation and foolish contracts.

quote:
Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.

Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?


Even accepting every word you say as true (Haliburton got a sweetheart contract, the tax cut mysteriously involved taking money from poor americans and giving it to rich americans), what does that have to do with state budget deficits? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792169 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:15:47 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792058 kilingspam : You are forgetting that California got ripped off with the fake energy crunch costing the state $38 billion dollars.
The judge only ordered $2 billion to be paid back.
What is wrong with that picture?
If someone raided your bank account of $36 billion dollars kinda hard to balance a budget huh?

Responsible tax cuts are fine if the Federal does it without corruption. Monies I pay in taxes to the feds that should be sent right back are going to pay for contracts signed for rebuilding Iraq. These fed contracts where handed out without any bidding. Hummmm, lets just hand a contract over to Cheneys old company without getting ANY QUOTES! Must be nice to spend my hard earned monies that way!
States are having to do these things because the Bush Admin (Feds) are ripping off every single american, or should I say all but the richest 1% that gave millions for Bush to be handed his seat by a court ruling and not by our votes.

Anyway, would one expect anything different from his brother Jeb?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7792058 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:03:27 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791866 Wall9 : I'll remember that when I'm collecting the social security that won't be there. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791866 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:38:44 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791435 oliphant5 : Yeah, they can call it whatever they want. Just because the money is in a different fold of the wallet doesn't mean it's not in the wallet.

It's the same B.S. symbolism over substance that we come to expect from the left.
--
Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791435 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:56:11 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791374 pnh102 :
said by garagerock See Profile:
er...care to reiterate that?
»www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html

This wouldn't be the first thing the government has ever lied about.

If there was indeed a trust fund that was populated since the inception of social security, with all that money being tucked away in some kind of lockbox, then how was the system able to pay out benefits immediately? That money came from the cash on hand the government had. Social security and medicare have been nothing more than legalized Ponzi schemes from the very beginning.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791374 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:48:24 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791285 garagerock :
quote:
THERE NEVER WAS A TRUST FUND
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND
THERE NEVER WILL BE A TRUST FUND


er...care to reiterate that?
»www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html

quote:
What Are the Trust Funds? The trust funds are financial accounts in the U.S. Treasury. Social Security and Medicare taxes, premiums and other income are credited to these accounts, and Social Security and Medicare benefits are paid from them. The only purposes for which these trust funds can be used are to pay benefits and program administration costs


There is a trust fund. It's called the Social Security Trust Fund.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7791285 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:37:20 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790854 pnh102 :
said by Benji21126 See Profile:
ahhh social security had a gigantic surplus until Bush/Cheeny decided to use it to say, pay Haliburton in the interests of national security? even now, that surplus is being used to fund other "pork" projects, and quickly dwindling.

Jiminy H. Crackers. I can't believe this! Let me say this loud and clear.


THERE NEVER WAS A TRUST FUND
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND
THERE NEVER WILL BE A TRUST FUND


Every single budget that is passed by the Federal government has always lumped the money collected through social security and medicare payroll deductions into the same general fund that all the money collected from any other tax goes. Social security and medicare payments are just line items in the same budget that fund everything else the government wastes our money on does.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790854 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:49:31 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790793 Benji21126 : ahhh social security had a gigantic surplus until Bush/Cheeny decided to use it to say, pay Haliburton in the interests of national security? even now, that surplus is being used to fund other "pork" projects, and quickly dwindling. Where and how are they going to replace this money when the boomers really hit? they are going to tax the young people, and put off any true reform.

for me, dont deduct anything from my pay check, i will invest it in a good growth mutual fund, and i wont need the 231. a month for my retirement]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790793 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:42:55 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790757 joebear29 :
said by Benji21126 See Profile:
florida doesnt have an income tax


Well, they can raise the investment tax then. Same theory.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790757 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:39:23 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790721 Benji21126 : florida doesnt have an income tax]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790721 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:34:59 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790679 pnh102 :
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:
Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare.

So I can use the same argument to pillage from the next generation of young people? Big deal. I work, pay taxes, and pay for other people as well. What makes my contributions any less significant than anyone elses? The only old people I would say I owed anything to would be my parents and those brave veterans who fought in our wars. I have no problem helping them out. Senior citizens are the richest group of people in the USA. They have a lot more money than I do. Why can't those who have the money and assets use them to pay for their own expenses instead of burdening other people with those responsibilities?
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:
They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too.

How so? The yearly expenses for social programs are paid out the same year they are collected. There's no magical "trust fund" out there into which all this money is thrown and then saved till a later date. All social security and medicare all comes out of current taxes and spending. If someone isn't paying taxes and they receive some kind of government benefit, then by definition they are taking it from someone who did pay taxes.

In the future I will have a family eventually and they will become my first priority. I will have to take care of them because they are my responsibility. How will I be able to take care of them if I am taxed to the hilt to pay for people who are selfish and greedy to the point that they will force the younger generation to sacrifice its future for its own short term gain. I lost my shirt in the stock market crash too. Why is my loss any less significant that someone elses?
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:
Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.

No, they voted for it because it passes the buck to someone else. To paraphrase one congressman, any program that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
said by Chief Sparky See Profile:
I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.

And the idea of forced wealth redistribution is good for this country? I don't like that idea, but I don't have a problem helping out people that can't do for themselves. I feel that it my moral duty to help those that are less fortunate than me, but that is my own opinion. My problem is with those people who do indeed have the ability to pay for their own problems, but who somehow think that its someone else's responsibility to cover the cost.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790679 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:32:15 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790536 oliphant5 : Tell me again how they supported me? I'm not on welfare, I don't have student loans, first time buyer (like FHA) are paid through the buyers themselves with FHA insurance premiums...and uh...I pay taxes too for those roads through $600/yr license fees, nearly .40/gal gas tax (soon to be .65/gal), a 1/2% sales tax hike along with my "contribution" to the general fund...and the fogies are still driving those roads too...and at significantly less cost than I.

If they haven't properly prepared for their retirement, why again is that my problem? Why should I have my retirement hampered because I have to pay even higher taxes to support the irresponsible?

I love this socialist attitude. Where the hell do you think all this money to fuel your utopian aspirations is going to come from huh? It's called the tax base. You raise the taxes, the tax base leaves. So you raise the taxes again, more tax base leaves. Pretty soon, you have nothing but leeches and no one pulling the cart. It's such a simple concept that even YOU could understand it. And think the tax base won't leave. It does. That's what is happening in California. Irresponsible "do-gooder" thinking like yours have run California into bankruptcy.

And voting...that's not going to solve this problem. Everyone votes themselves free stuff. They don't care who they're stealing it from. You think these fogies care that they're taking food from children's mouths everytime their new programs cause massive tax increases? Only what is happening in California will solve this problem. Flee the state...and those that can't or won't...oust the regime that destroyed the state with economic bumbling like you advocate.
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Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 01:59:57]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790536 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:19:07 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790525 mrclark : Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you

Um.........WTF?

When have you known politicians to "NOT TRY TO THINK OF WAYS" to get their hands on our money?

And how does this have ANYTHING REMOTELY to do with Federal Tax Cuts?

maybe you could respond with a reasonable "unbiased" view of how you came to this conclusion....because frankly, I'm baffled.
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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." - H.L Mencken
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 15:20:09]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790525 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:18:20 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790488 garagerock : Sorry, that's not reality. Go ahead and cut those benefits...and see who gets handed their asses in the state legislature elections.

Sure, cut expenses for other things-but those Medicare benefits are going to run the whole country out of business when the Boomer generation starts retiring and needing those benefits. We are already experiencing this on a national level...oh wait, new stadiums for the football team are more important.

(God knows I won't comment on your "election" for governor....sheesh!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790488 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:14:30 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790445 oliphant5 :
said by garagerock See Profile:
said by joebear29 See Profile:
Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.

If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.


Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.

In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.

So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.


Sure, in California combined increases of population and inflation was 21%. Revenue increased 25%. Spending increased 40%. Now they want another $10 billion in new taxes. And you want to tell me that this isn't a spending problem?

Yes...you cap the friggin' spending. Knock of with the INCREASES in benefits. Etc.
--
Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack McKokkov Motorsports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790445 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:09:22 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790189 Chief Sparky :
quote:
...paying for the old fogies forever. As a young person, its very hard to see myself actually saving any money because the government is going to tax it away to pay for some old fogie's "free" health care or prescription drug "benefit." Why do old people who are not poor and can afford to pay for these things (by either using their own cash or selling their assets) think they should be entitled to these things at the expense of the young?


/rant mode on

Let's see... these "old fogies" worked for 30-40-50 years, supported you, wiped your nose and ass, paid taxes all along to support welfare, student loan programs, welfare, first time home buyer programs, welfare, prisons full of people too stupid or lazy to do anything but commit crimes, welfare, roads for you to drive on, welfare, welfare, and welfare. They have watched state, corporate and federal bungling, mismanagement and outright criminal behavior reduce the pensions they worked all their lives for to incomes below the poverty level. You seem to be missing the fact that these "old fogies" have already paid their dues, and a good portion of yours too. Medicare & Medicaid were programs THEY voted to establish to look after themselves in their old age, and paid for their entire working lives.

I love your attitude - it's a symbol of what's wrong with this country.

If you want to effect meaningful change to the system, then get out and vote. Learn the issues, figure out how to avoid the "Bread and Circuses" trap, and realize that the welfare of the many truly does outweigh that of the few. Then vote.

/rant mode off.

paul
--
Duty, Honor, Country, these things above all else... EMC(SS), USN(ret)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7790189 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:41:21 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789676 lesopp : Florida voters amended the state constitution some years ago to bar the state from taxing income.

Florida used to get a good chunk of change from tourism revenues. Following 9-11 tourism fell and never completely recovered. Adding to that the tech bubble burst, jobs were lost and the economy went into a recession.

Finally, the voters in 2000 amended the state constitution to require the government build a high-speed rail system. In 2002 they again amended the state constitution to limit class sizes, along with some other dumb-ass amendments. The voters approved all these amendments without a thought as to how they would be funded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789676 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:42:55 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789604 BosstonesOwn : The american way look at how the goverment is run... Everything for Me nothing for You.

This has given way to the great goverment to this day. Don't get me wrong i love the US.. But things have to change. The people did it in england and left england for the new found land mass called america. now however we can't really go do our own goverment... unless of course we move to the moon or some other planet.

Point is this crap is rediculous. The people more likely to die and get sick should pop the price. ie.. smokers, drinkers .. speeders. These guys should be flipping the bill for the damages they do to the system since it's shown in studies that they require more healthcare later in life.

raise the taxes on that stuff and you are now flipping the bill for themselves. No one should ever be taxed on the internet weather it's voip or data. Thats just wrong. You pay for the access what you do with it should be your right.
--
Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789604 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:34:48 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789489 pnh102 :
said by jelling See Profile:
OMG -- They still voted themselves into this mess.

Of course, they drag everyone else into the endless sieve of paying for the old fogies forever. As a young person, its very hard to see myself actually saving any money because the government is going to tax it away to pay for some old fogie's "free" health care or prescription drug "benefit." Why do old people who are not poor and can afford to pay for these things (by either using their own cash or selling their assets) think they should be entitled to these things at the expense of the young?
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789489 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:21:32 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789486 akristov : Florida does not have an income tax, hopefully we will not have a LAN tax either.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789486 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:20:55 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789291 garagerock : Ahhh, but therein lies the rub. Their expenses are always going to rise, and if federal revenues are down (as they are now), how can they raise income taxes without causing collateral political damage? Instead, they raise a knick-knack tax (cigarettes, booze, LAN's) to make up for the shortfall.

Far easier to do than raising income taxes. No state wants to be known as the state that rose income taxes so high it drove the population away (er, wait-isn't that California?)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789291 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:59:27 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789289 GlobalMind : Sure it does.

There are umpteen thousand folks who move here every day. The only caveat is that in many cases you can't get their income declared...i.e. not legal, cash payments etc. However, there are plenty of folks working here to give substantial income to the state even at a low rate of tax.

It isn't that there is not a state income tax because it doesn't make sense, there isn't one because it has been legislated out of existence.

The crux of my point is that I would much rather get hit once than all of this nickel & dime crap that we're subject to. It's pathetic. There is too much passing of the buck simply because agency X doesn't have the cash to handle issue Y.

(edit: Let me be clear - I wish to keep as much of my $$ as possible, and frankly on the federal side I am amazed at just how damn much tax I have to pay. Having no state tax can be a really cool thing, but you have to manage the lack of that income accordingly. Something that simply has not been done here. Barring the "tax me for looking at the sun" philosophy, I don't see how any of them can bitch and complain that there isn't any $$ to get the job done, when they've killed off the state tax option...and continue to spend like they have all of that cash available.)

K.

[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 13:11:29]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789289 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:59:16 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789144 joebear29 :
said by garagerock See Profile:

Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.

In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.

So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.


So don't cap spending, and tax away.

What I objected to was blaming State budget deficits on Federal tax cuts. If anything, reduced Federal burdens on taxpayers gives the states more room to raise taxes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789144 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:41:40 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789126 garagerock :
said by joebear29 See Profile:
Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.

If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.


Yes, in the laboratory that sounds great.

In the real world, people who need Medicare aren't going to tolerate any caps on that spending, especially when the older generation has a LOT of political clout (AARP, anyone?) and vote in large numbers. Health care issues alone are going to bankrupt the whole country if we're not careful...and wishing it all away isn't going to work.

So-raise taxes to continue benefits, or cut benefits? Both are political landmines for politicians.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789126 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:39:34 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789025 jelling :
said by ronpin See Profile:
OMG -- they still exist


OMG -- They still voted themselves into this mess.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7789025 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:27:19 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788953 AnArky : How is that? Show me facts and figures. If you feel you should be paying more taxes then by all means if you recieve a refund every year just tell them to keep it as you do not think you are taxed enough. If you do not they will more than gladly take any donations. Just make your check out to the U.S. Treasury. Maybe... Just maybe they will send it over to your state.
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One of the Team Starfire Seven! Team Starfire Security and the thorn in Kinguni's side.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788953 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:15:28 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788824 2farfromCO7 : Of course Florida doesn't have a state income tax. If they relied on a state income tax for revenue, they'd go bankrupt. That's why they have a state investment tax. That way they can tax the entire senior population. A state income tax doesn't make sense in Florida.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788824 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:59:55 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788820 joebear29 : Yes, but tax revenues increase as well.

If the states had held spending increases to population growth + inflation, they would not be in fiscal crisis.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788820 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:59:46 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788760 garagerock : All states except for Vermont have balanced budget laws:
»slate.msn.com/id/2084993/

quote:
Alabama boasts the most stringent balanced-budget requirement. At the end of the fiscal year, if appropriations have exceeded revenues, the treasury is forbidden from disbursing any more funds. An official who dares dole out an extra cent can be punished with a $5,000 fine, two years in the clink, and impeachment. (No one has ever been so disciplined.)


The problem is, that expenses keep rising. Kinda hard to piss off the voters by saying their Medicare can't be funded anymore...that wouldn't work!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788760 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:54:46 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788744 GlobalMind : Not really.

The Federal tax cuts don't have much impact on this as far as I see it.

The real issue is the fact that in this lovely state, the old timers managed to get the "no state income tax" law put into the state constitution.

So, they have to find the cash to run the state somehow...and this is just the latest target.

K.
--
TheGlobalMind.com  
"On a clear disk you can seek forever"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788744 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:52:50 EDT Re: This is what elderly transplants will get you. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788681 ronpin : OMG -- they still exist]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788681 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:45:33 EDT This is what elderly transplants will get you... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788585 IronChefMoto : The old Floridian farts are draining the state for "me first" healthcare and retirement benefits. Plain and simple. ;)

IronChefMorimoto]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788585 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:34:32 EDT Re: This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788554 joebear29 : This what uncontrolled state spending gets you.

Besides, with the Federal tax cuts, the states are free to raise their own income tax rates. They just don't.

It's not like the Federal tax cuts forced them to raise a LAN tax.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-26 11:30:59]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788554 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:29:57 EDT This is what massive Federal tax cuts will get you http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788536 ronpin : My 0.02]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,7788536 Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:27:06 EDT