 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| TiVo is an option All you need is a CableCard for TiVo.
I have a TiVo in the living room, a Comcast DVR in the bedroom and a SD box in the basement on an old TV.
I used to have two TiVo boxes but I moved one of them to grandma's house in Maine so I could have a DVR in my room at her house without making her pay Time Warner the $12 DVR rental fee. As a matter of fact, the CableCard for the TiVo is $1.75 per month (and includes the SDV tuning adapter) instead of the $8 set-top box that was there before.
At my house, Comcast charges hefty fees for equipment (probably to compensate for the high rate of unreturned equipment in my area). They charge the same $9 for either an SD box or an HD box.
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Romney-Ryan and Scott Brown are the Right Choice as they are Hope & Change you can count on. |
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| TiVo is a bigger ripoff than the boxes from the cable companies, you have to pay either the $500 lifetime fee or $19.95 a month plus the CableCard fees just to get any encrypted channels.
It is a bit underhanded to charge someone more than the programming fee to be able to access it, since they run these promotions down people's throats and don't really show the real costs, but they have to find some way to recoup the equipment costs, I guess.
This is why I want to build an HTPC because a CableCard is cheap, and I never have to pay fees for anything. And like pnh, I've had terrible luck with Motorola DVR's, I went through at least 10 when I had that service. That's why I refuse to pay for it now, although I'm on my 3rd Motorola HD box now in 15 months, although the other 2 only made it about a month combined. |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·KCH Cable
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| I agree. Sure, they have a few perks on top of a cable box, but I still don't get it.
It's always the one thing people forget to mention - that it costs about the same, or more than a cable box, when all is said and done.
edit: ...build that media center  ...simple, easy, no monthly fees (other than the card, if you go that route).
also, I've had good luck with past moto DVR boxes. Not to say that they're super great, but when they first came out, it was pretty cool, and I never had a problem. |
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 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | That's actually not true. Tivo costs less over time than cableco DVR options.
With Tivo, you *own* the box and if you buy lifetime the box has residual value. That means you can sell it on eBay and recoup some of that cost. Sure you still have to pay for cablecard fees, but that is less than paying for a box and dvr fee from cableco.
The math is simple. Tivo will save you money in the long run. |
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| Yea, you might save one dollar after the massive upfront costs in 10 years!
Tivo is a joke. There's no surprise it didn't exactly take off. |
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | said by osravens:Yea, you might save one dollar after the massive upfront costs in 10 years!
Clearly, we as a country need to spend more on math education if osravens cannot even compute a simple return on investment computation. Remember to VOTE on NOVEMBER 6th! Don't let the school systems produce another person like osravens, incapable of simple math work! |
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 aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to osravens
said by osravens:TiVo is a bigger ripoff than the boxes from the cable companies, you have to pay either the $500 lifetime fee or $19.95 a month plus the CableCard fees just to get any encrypted channels.
It is a bit underhanded to charge someone more than the programming fee to be able to access it, since they run these promotions down people's throats and don't really show the real costs, but they have to find some way to recoup the equipment costs, I guess.
This is why I want to build an HTPC because a CableCard is cheap, and I never have to pay fees for anything. And like pnh, I've had terrible luck with Motorola DVR's, I went through at least 10 when I had that service. That's why I refuse to pay for it now, although I'm on my 3rd Motorola HD box now in 15 months, although the other 2 only made it about a month combined.
How is TiVo a rip off? In the 5+ years I've had FiOS, if I had been using FiOS DVRs all that time I would have paid much, much, much, more than I have paid with my TiVos. |
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| reply to morbo
Tivo Premiere: $199.99
Lifetime Service: $499.99
We're at $699.98. If a DVR service costs $15/month, not counting CableCard fees, it takes 46 months to break even. So it takes over 4 years to save any money with a Tivo.
If it's $20/month, then it's over 3 years with CableCard fees.
Sorry, I think I'll go build a HTPC instead. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by osravens:Tivo Premiere: $199.99
Lifetime Service: $499.99
We're at $699.98. If a DVR service costs $15/month, not counting CableCard fees, it takes 46 months to break even. So it takes over 4 years to save any money with a Tivo.
If it's $20/month, then it's over 3 years with CableCard fees.
Sorry, I think I'll go build a HTPC instead.
Then I can sell the box when done wth it. Plus I've never paid $500 for lifetime for any of my TiVos. I've only paid between $200 and $400.
I sold my Series 3 lifetime TiVos to pay for 80% of the cost of my lifetime Premiere TiVos(two tuners). Then I sold two of my two tuner Premiere TiVos to cover 100% or more of the cost of each of my lifetime four tuner Premiere TiVos.(I have two TiVo Elites so I sold four two tuner lifetime TiVos which covered at least 100% of the cost of my two lifetime TiVo Elites)
My break even point is much less than 4 months.
And if/when a six tuner TiVo comes out next year, I will sell at least one, four tuner lifetime TiVo to cover most of the cost of a lifetime six tuner box. |
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| Aaron, your example neglects to notice that the TiVo lifetime service now costs $500 for anyone new to it. And that includes a $50 sale, the box is regularly $250. And most people don't have old TiVo's sitting around to sell. You're an isolated case.
So my examples are actually LONGER than originally provided. In its current form, TiVO is a ripoff. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by osravens:Aaron, your example neglects to notice that the TiVo lifetime service now costs $500 for anyone new to it. And that includes a $50 sale, the box is regularly $250. And most people don't have old TiVo's sitting around to sell. You're an isolated case.
So my examples are actually LONGER than originally provided. In its current form, TiVO is a ripoff.
Anyone new to TiVo can use a widely available coupon code to make the lifetime service only $400. A bargin compared to paying several years of fees to the cable company.
And you have to include the resale value in your example. Any lifetime TiVo has decent resale value. |
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| OK, so $400 + $200 = $600 / $15 = 40 months.
It's still 3.5 years to break even since this doesn't include the CableCard fees. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | said by osravens:OK, so $400 + $200 = $600 / $15 = 40 months.
It's still 3.5 years to break even since this doesn't include the CableCard fees.
Don't forget about the features of each box. The cable company boxes are typically crap compared to the TiVo. My neighbors are always complaining about their FiOS and Comcast DVRs. But they keep paying the $16 to $20+ rentals fees for each box. And they never own the boxes.
While with the lifetime TiVos, you can sell them for $300 to $600(depending on the model and hard drive size). Which recoups a large portion of the initial cost.
I've owned over two dozen TiVos over the last eleven years. I've never had any problem selling my used TiVos. |
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| Oh wow, features! It's a cable box with a guide. That's all it needs to be. Let's also not forget the features lost as you won't have access to On Demand. While Comcast is starting to let it in, the rest haven't.
And I pulled up the eBay listings. Your sale prices are delusional. Most of them are well under $100 except the newest ones.
Sure, you'll own it. And when you finally save money, it's an obsolete piece of crap. In 4 years when you finally save a dime, we probably won't even have coax delivered TV.
There's a reason Tivo never really took off. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
2 edits | said by osravens:Oh wow, features! It's a cable box with a guide. That's all it needs to be.
And I pulled up the eBay listings. Your sale prices are delusional. Most of them are well under $100 except the newest ones.
Sure, you'll own it. And when you finally save money, it's an obsolete piece of crap. In 4 years when you finally save a dime, we probably won't even have coax delivered TV.
There's a reason Tivo never really took off.
You aren't looking at the right sales. You have to look at sales of lifetime TiVos, series 3 and series 4. I just looked at the completed listings of the lifetime Premiere boxes. The used boxes went for between $400 and $600. Any $100 auctions you see are for old boxes that don't handle HD.
The last couple of TiVos I sold were in Spring when I got my second Elite box. I pocketed over $900 total for both of my Lifetime TiVos. The Elite I got cost under $900 for the box, lifetime service, extended warranty and taxes.
So i still have four tuners, but only one box and it uses 21 watts instead of the 48 watts total that the two boxes I sold used. |
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | reply to osravens
said by osravens:Sorry, I think I'll go build a HTPC instead.
Yeah, the comparison is between Tivo and cableco DVR, not an HTPC. Remember what you said:
said by osravens:TiVo is a bigger ripoff than the boxes from the cable companies, you have to pay either the $500 lifetime fee or $19.95 a month plus the CableCard fees just to get any encrypted channels. In my area, DVR from the cableco is $20 a month plus $5 per rented box. For one TV, that means paying $25 for a crappy DVR. At the end of 2 years, it has no residual value because you don't own the box. At the end of 2 years, Tivo with lifetime is worth $300-500. |
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| reply to aaronwt
You don't get it. You're saying how much money you save with a TiVo because you're selling a bunch of old TiVo's. Someone just getting into TiVo doesn't have that advantage you do. TiVo's are going to save you more money than other people because you're already with them.
For someone just looking into it as an option, it's trading one devil (the cable box) for another one. Except instead of paying it out monthly, you're going to pay it all upfront and start saving money years from now. I see the justification behind it, but it's like a hybrid car. You'll supposedly save money on gas, but since you're paying more for the car, it's going to be a long time before you ever see it that pretty much defeats the purpose.
And if you don't do the lifetime subscriptions, it's more expensive than any DVR service anywhere. Using Comcast as an example, you'll still have the HD Technology Fee and the CableCard fee, and $15/month to TiVo. And again, that only covers 1 outlet.
Also, you have to factor in that you might pay more for cable service since you'll be tied to it, as very few areas have mutliple providers that work with TiVo. Something to consider as well since satellite won't be an option for you, neither will u-Verse. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by osravens:You don't get it. You're saying how much money you save with a TiVo because you're selling a bunch of old TiVo's. Someone just getting into TiVo doesn't have that advantage you do. TiVo's are going to save you more money than other people because you're already with them.
For someone just looking into it as an option, it's trading one devil (the cable box) for another one. Except instead of paying it out monthly, you're going to pay it all upfront and start saving money years from now. I see the justification behind it, but it's like a hybrid car. You'll supposedly save money on gas, but since you're paying more for the car, it's going to be a long time before you ever see it that pretty much defeats the purpose.
And if you don't do the lifetime subscriptions, it's more expensive than any DVR service anywhere. Using Comcast as an example, you'll still have the HD Technology Fee and the CableCard fee, and $15/month to TiVo. And again, that only covers 1 outlet.
Just look at the example Morbo gave...
said by morbo 
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In my area, DVR from the cableco is $20 a month plus $5 per rented box. For one TV, that means paying $25 for a crappy DVR. At the end of 2 years, it has no residual value because you don't own the box. At the end of 2 years, Tivo with lifetime is worth $300-500.
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| And even then at $700, you're still not saving a dime until month 29, again, not counting CableCard fees you're not paying with an issued DVR. Even at the highest (I'm pretty sure that's Charter), it still takes almost 3 years to save any money with TiVo.
You can call it an option all you want, it's not realistic for most people, and it's hardly going to save you that much money. And by the time it does, you'll be stuck with an outdated box unless you keep trading them around on eBay or wherever to move up.
Yes, several years. If you're keeping a TiVo for 3 years, you will not save any money in 99% of situations from a typical DVR. That is pretty much indisputable. |
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aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | My GF still has two of my Lifetime Series 3 boxes that she uses for OTA only. Those boxes will be six years old in December. I could easily get $300 for each of them if I put the stock 250GB drive back in them. With the 1TB drive that is in each of them I could get $350 to $400 for each of them.
So they have been used daily for six years so you get a lot of use from them plus a nice resale value. |
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