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Re: Steve Jobs dead 1 yr The Ultimate Tribute to Jobs...
Foxconn's iPhone plant "paralyzed" as thousands strike: report
»www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/···20121006
Jobs knew of the conditions at Foxconn...corporate slavery!
Enjoy your Iphone built by an Islave
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"Thanks for the dance... and cut yourself a slice'a throat! "
- Curly (HOI POLLOI, 1935) |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Most of the young people who protest these sweatshops themselves would defecate bricks if working conditions were improved and the prices of their iDevices and other electronic gadgets rose accordingly.
But say Apple decided to make the iPhone in a fully automated robotic facility... I wonder how many of the same people would complain that Apple killed jobs?
But on a personal note... I am not sure how to feel about this. Yes it stinks that people work like this, but in places like China, these are the plum jobs, and without them, these people would have no work and be in deeper poverty. Yes, the working conditions are not ideal. But the low cost of labor has also made electronics more accessible to more people in the West. Remember how expensive TVs, VCRs, stereo systems and computers were in the 1970s and 1980s? We'd never have the kind of penetration with the Internet that we have today if electronic gadgetry was prohibitively expensive.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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1 edit | said by pnh102: Yes, the working conditions are not ideal. But the low cost of labor has also made electronics more accessible to more people in the West. Not ideal?...what a heart you have. Would you have your child work there? And just like the prevailing attitude in the west, they're keeping the wages low under the guise of "you're lucky to have a job" and keeping all of the profits at the top. And that same low cost of labor mentality has poliferated board rooms across America sending millions of middle class jobs overseas from here in the good ole U.S.A further depleting our tax base and sending people here into the abyss of poverty. Everything any one needs to know about you is in your writing. Justifying criminal working conditions so kids can fight in school about what SuzieQ said on Facebook is pretty freakin sad. You should think of the term "consequence" when applying this mentality!
And by the way... Weren't you one of the ones crying for people to save rather than have an entity give away a subsidy?
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"Thanks for the dance... and cut yourself a slice'a throat! "
- Curly (HOI POLLOI, 1935) |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by S_engineer: Not ideal?...what a heart you have.
If you don't like the way electronics companies do business, then don't buy from them. Or perhaps you can support political candidates who would change the laws in the US so that manufacturing here, under more ideal conditions, becomes financially possible.
I'll assert that Apple is the least worst of the offenders because they are under a lot more scrutiny than anyone else.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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 Rogue WolfReally Ties The Room Together
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY | Why is it not "financially possible" right now? Because we have laws regarding minimum wage, overtime, child labor, pollution?
I'm sure we could out-compete the Chinese if we threw all that out the window. But do we want to?
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I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by Rogue Wolf:Why is it not "financially possible" right now? Because we have laws regarding minimum wage, overtime, child labor, pollution?
I'm sure we could out-compete the Chinese if we threw all that out the window. But do we want to? Then you have to accept that these problems are now exported to China.
There's also another big problem here... college education. We simply do not graduate enough Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) majors to effectively compete. Sure there are tons of college-educated people, but they are in majors which do not prepare them for this kind of work. On the other hand, China literally poops out truckloads of these people.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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gazer
join:2005-08-23
Richmond Hill, ON | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:Most of the young people who protest these sweatshops themselves would defecate bricks if working conditions were improved and the prices of their iDevices and other electronic gadgets rose accordingly.
I know you mean gadgets in general but regarding iDevices, being made @ Foxconn is keeping prices down? What would they be if manufactured in the US?
Prices are set by greed first, consumer affordability second. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by gazer:I know you mean gadgets in general but regarding iDevices, being made @ Foxconn is keeping prices down? What would they be if manufactured in the US?
Prices are set by greed first, consumer affordability second.
Just go back to the early 1980s and remember how expensive electronics were back them when they were not made like they are in China. You'd be paying $1000 or so for a VCR, $500 for a TV, etc.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by Rogue Wolf:Why is it not "financially possible" right now? Because we have laws regarding minimum wage, overtime, child labor, pollution?
I'm sure we could out-compete the Chinese if we threw all that out the window. But do we want to? Then you have to accept that these problems are now exported to China. There's also another big problem here... college education. We simply do not graduate enough Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) majors to effectively compete. Sure there are tons of college-educated people, but they are in majors which do not prepare them for this kind of work. On the other hand, China literally poops out truckloads of these people. Because the Asians are smarter than us in general, especially when it comes to the sciences (the stereotype is absolutely true).
Americans have never been good at math or science. Most of the real science done here in the 20th century was done by Nazi refugees. Indeed most all of the important breakthroughs in physics during the 19th and 20th centuries was either done in Europe or by Europeans who immigrated to America later. (Indeed, the only reason America got the bomb was because of Jewish physicists fleeing the Nazis).
During the early 20th century America was completely ignored in the sciences -- all the best were in Europe. There were very few "native" Americans who had any influence at all, especially in physics. If you were to walk into a Princeton or Harvard science building during the 40's or 50's you would hear nothing but German accents.
And most of the good science being done here today is done by immigrants not born here. I don't have exact statistics, but I think around 40% of all math and science graduate students in American universities are foreign born.
So the only way America will ever stay competitive at science is to ask more Indians and Asians to immigrate here.
This is not to say "native" American students are too stupid for STEM courses, but they don't have much incentive. Most college students have dollar signs on their mind and the rigor of getting advanced degrees is not worth the economic pay-off. You can do well financially with a 4 year STEM degree, thus going for 4 extra years is not worth it to most people.
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Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999 |
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3 edits | Hog Wash... What a racist comment.
Cultural influence and aptitude are completely different things and we have plenty of "Asians" who are American in America too. 
The thing is that our culture isn't putting enough emphasis on STEM topics. We'd rather watch football, basketball, et cetera. So people think those things are cool and important and not science and math. |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by Rogue Wolf:Why is it not "financially possible" right now? Because we have laws regarding minimum wage, overtime, child labor, pollution?
I'm sure we could out-compete the Chinese if we threw all that out the window. But do we want to? There's also another big problem here... college education. We simply do not graduate enough Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) majors to effectively compete. Why would anyone take out the type of loans for the aforementioned major when corporations are being "financially responsible" and either paying low wages with little benefits, or exporting these jobs in the first place?....second, we can effectively compete and crush any foreign competition....the problem is it just might cut those profit margins for the next quarter....and we can't have that now can we!
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"Thanks for the dance... and cut yourself a slice'a throat! "
- Curly (HOI POLLOI, 1935) |
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 The LimitPremium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2 | reply to KodiacZiller
So, basically having a piece of paper gives us knowledge. False.
I would gladly give you plenty of counterexamples as to American mathematicians who have made an impact in mathematics (which is the foundation for many, many subjects including science).
And, for the record, we have the right to consider whether getting a worthless piece of paper is worth going into the hole. It's the only way to get a job in this economy, regardless of what people say about having a "marketable" skill. In my own personal experience, no place would ever give me an interview because I didn't have that damn piece of paper, even though I have plenty of marketable skills.
So, damned if I go to college, and damned if I don't go to college, one way or another it sounds like Americans JUST don't measure up. I would actually heed your opinion, except most of your opinion is nothing but conjecturing. Provide some sources, citations, some claims to back up your argument, and your conjecture would be valid.
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"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010) |
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 jduffyPremium
join:2006-08-20
Cincinnati, OH
 ·Vonage
·net2phone
 ·Cincinnati Bell
·Skype
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 ·RoadRunner Cable
·ooma
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We could probably manufacture in the U.S. and be competitive, if we did not have unions. Union workers work less, provide lower quality products, take sick days when they really are not sick, protect poor performing workers, require paid union stewards who go home to drink during the workday, sabotage products to protest silly crap against their employer, etc. So while it is possible to be competitive against China, union BS here in the U.S. prevents that work from coming back. Hence our declining standard of living here and the massive U.S. debt. While unions at one time provided a much needed service, employment laws and protections have made unions obsolete and unnecessary. The are now a hinderance to jobs and economic growth.
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Atheists swear there is no Heaven, but pray there isn't a Hell. |
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Ahhh the same old anti-union lies, just a different name.
How do you explain that, as union membership has been declining, the situation is getting worse? Manufacturing is still moving offshore. It will not come back until you are willing to work for $10/day... are you saying YOU are ready to take a big pay cut? |
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JTR
join:2012-05-19
Carbondale, IL Reviews:
·Mediacom
1 edit | reply to S_engineer
Enjoy your {Acer, ASRock, Asus, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, IBM, Lenovo, Logitech, Microsoft, MSI, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony Ericsson, Toshiba, and Vizio} devices made with Foxconn "iSlave" labor. Clearly, the only solution here is to move to the backwoods and live in a cave. |
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Rogue WolfReally Ties The Room Together
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY | reply to jduffy
said by jduffy:While unions at one time provided a much needed service, employment laws and protections have made unions obsolete and unnecessary. The common tendency by many politicians these days is to call those laws "job-killing regulations" and agitate for them to be repealed.
This nation had a time in our recent past where huge companies had all the power in almost every facet of our lives- absolute monopolies, with the power to dictate legislation or even buy political positions. They called the people who headed these companies "robber barons". There are some people who romanticize that era; these are the same people who quote Ayn Rand ceaselessly and wholeheartedly believe that money is the only measure of worth for anything- up to, including, and especially human beings.
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I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer: Why would anyone take out the type of loans for the aforementioned major when corporations are being "financially responsible" and either paying low wages with little benefits, or exporting these jobs in the first place?....second, we can effectively compete and crush any foreign competition....the problem is it just might cut those profit margins for the next quarter....and we can't have that now can we! It depends on your major... if you get a B.S. in Psychology, liberal arts, English, womyn's studies, etc. then yes you most likely relegate yourself to low-wage work. But majors in various kinds of engineering can do better.
As for effectively competing, we can't. If we could, then we'd see more manufacturing here than abroad.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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| reply to JTR
said by JTR:Clearly, the only solution here is to move to the backwoods and live in a cave.
...and be a subsistence farmer with homemade tools to protest migrant farm-working conditions. |
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| reply to KodiacZiller
Some of the best scientists in history came from America.
Asians have a higher average IQ, but all of the most intelligent people with the highest IQs are white.
And as for your full of crap response about the manhattan project?
»www.nndb.com/group/738/000055573/
46 americans
6 germans
5 austrians
3 italians
3 guys from hungary (1 other from austria-hungary, included as an austrian)
2 english
2 guys from denmark
2 from poland
2 candians
1 guy from russia
1 from the netherlands
1 guy from new zealand
1 JEWISH
And from the American side, most were physicists.
This is a list of all of the people involved with the manhattan project, either spying, giving advice, political, etc.
Wanna spew anymore of your BS? Try it somewhere else. |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:But say Apple decided to make the iPhone in a fully automated robotic facility... I wonder how many of the same people would complain that Apple killed jobs?
Actually it was cancer. |
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