 r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
 ·row44
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to ITALIAN926
Re: Retirement said by ITALIAN926:Wow, youre back with your all-mighty wisdom, AGAIN. If you were at a job that had a pension, you wouldnt have such ridiculous opinions. When youre coming out of college, and you weigh your options, the benefits are analyzed. If a company offers a pension, and vacation, and sicktime, and a good wage, you GO FOR THAT JOB.
Just because you dont have something, doesnt mean nobody else should. I thought you retired this screen name?
And by the way, it will really ruffle your feathers to know that VZ Union employees not only get a pension, but have a 401K as well. Yea, maybe you shouldve filled out a NYNEX, Bell Atlantic, GTE, or Verizon application years ago.
I'll never understand why people are so concerned with dragging down everyone else instead of raising themselves up, its really sad.
All I could find was 2007 data.
80% government workers get pensions
21% private workers get pensions
Pensions are rare in the private industry as they are not sustainable. A company cannot afford to have pensions unless they are a monopoly on something we all need so they can keep increasing their prices.
Capitalism prevents pensions from working as a new company can come along and under cut the prices of a company that have 20,000 people retired on their pensions plan.
The private sector pensions will not last. The landline phone business will be over in the next 10 years, so anyone not retired by then and those still on retirement before then will lose their pensions. They are stupid if they actually think they will get one.
How can you expect a company to afford to pay for workers who no longer work for them? Workers who make them no money at all?
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...brought to you by Carl's Jr. |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| You dont LOSE pensions working for a company that makes 10 BILLION dollars a year in profit.
Even if the union employees "lost" their current pensions, as you constantly seem to hope for, they are NOT LOST, they are FROZEN. Dont you think theres some kind of laws to protect workers in that situation?.
I work for a company 30 years, expecting a pension to retire, then the company says " nah we changed our minds, you have nothing" Wake up bud. |
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| reply to r81984
That assumes that prior Verizon management(Baby Bell side and GTE side) made no future plans when they were a monopoly. I would be curious to see how much they currently have for assets in their pension plan. |
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| reply to ITALIAN926
you do! Look at GM. They paid ALL of those people's retirment for YEARS and still do only to go bankrupt with no money. the USPS is the same- a public/private company yet going bankrput thanks to the retirement BS. these people should be REQUIRED to pay into their retirement and save just like everyone else. Just because you're union does NOT give you the right to demand this. They should strike again and VZ should LOCK them ALL OUT. VZ needs to attend BCI's Class of Union Mgt. |
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bemis
join:2008-07-18
Reading, MA Reviews:
 ·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to r81984
said by r81984:How can you expect a company to afford to pay for workers who no longer work for them? Workers who make them no money at all?
Let me just say that I am with you--I am against continued pensions now that it's plainly clear they are an unsustainable future nightmare for employers.
But the thing is that these companies did promise pensions to these workers and it would not be right to take them away. I think however that the unions need to accept this situation and work out some sort of a deal.
Any active employee with over 5 years of service keeps their arrangement. Active employee with less than 5 years gets a lump sum put into a 401K or other retirement account. Those same under-5 employees and new employees get an employer provided contribution either as a base contribution or a match.
For reference my employer will put 2% as long as a "match" if I put in 6%...
My health case "option" (is it really an option if your choice is that or nothing?) is a high deductible plan. In essence what I have is a catastrophic-coverage plan because I am responsible for 100% of the first $2,000 of my health costs per year, then 20% of them up to a max yearly out of pocket of $10,000.
My job required a technical college degree (electronics). I receive no bonus. My salary would be considered at the very low end of average given the number of years of experience I have.
So it seems like Verizon union workers probably have quite a lot of things to "give up" before they are down to what I believe is a relatively common private sector job. |
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| reply to hottboiinnc
I think I have finally reached the point of using my IGNORE button again, as this person has absolutly nothing constructive to contribute, but anti-employee, anti-consumer crap! |
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| reply to r81984
(I'm not trying to stir up the pot...just an observation) 
Another point that should be added against pension failure is:
-When the government (state or federal) borrows against the pension funds.
-When the borrowed pension funds are not replaced.
-When pensions are invested in risk.
What good are pensions when the very controller is, well, stealing from the workers?
Pensions do work but not with the scale of inflation, the failed investments let alone no checksums or regulation (SEC failed with all the previous scandals...can we even trust investment bodies?) , inclusion of OT, and don't forget, longevity.
*My father has a pension, he's over 80 and took early out when 64. My Bro-n-law has a pension (IBM) and he's 65 (he was given early out at 59...). Friend's father was 55 when he left Verizon, plus was vet. His wife worked at Government installation and her pension, with his, is more than they made together when working.
I'm just against those collecting pensions*, plus SS plus taking jobs to afford their fishing boat, that vacation home and other hobbies (not cost of living...). 
(Let's say a NJ state director moves from one department to another. When he retired, he was not only eligible for pension (based on last 3 years salary averaged--now updated to 5 years) but also of the previous department pension work (double pensions).
Or how pensions can be based on last 3 years of salary, but include...get this...overtime).
Say a law officer works last three years at $62K, $65K, and $67K. Averaged @ $64.6K, a pension on 80% of worked salary should be $52K/annually + medical. Now, include OT in those three years (say $30K annually), the 3yr average is now $94.6K ...making the 80% rule $76K !!! The pension is MORE than the salary was.
This example shows the increased salary with based OT. That has to stop, right?
PS. I know when I retire, SS will be negative... WTF! Yet annually that SS letter shows how much I am to collect at age 65... lol...
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Splat |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | reply to r81984
I predict the land-line internet business will be around forever, though. |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | reply to hottboiinnc
Having the company pay into a retirement fund is part of an employment contract that was made when the workers were hired. Surely you believe that contracts are legally binding? |
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 DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:78
 ·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
 ·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc:you do! Look at GM. They paid ALL of those people's retirment for YEARS and still do only to go bankrupt with no money. the USPS is the same- a public/private company yet going bankrput thanks to the retirement BS. these people should be REQUIRED to pay into their retirement and save just like everyone else. Just because you're union does NOT give you the right to demand this. They should strike again and VZ should LOCK them ALL OUT. VZ needs to attend BCI's Class of Union Mgt.
yea, GM learned a few good lessons though.
1.) The CEO and his management and board can be dissolved by current government administration. Ahh yes how quickly we forget that Mr. Wagner did get his pink slip!
2.) You really shouldn't use a corporate fueled jet and be eating filet minion when asking for money.
3.) If you are going to screw someone out of money, be sure you don't look rich enough to afford it!
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
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 MaggsLife is awesomePremium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY
·RCN CABLE
| reply to axus
Health and welfare benefits can be cut via bankruptcy. They can elect to put their pension funds into a PBGC receivership and get rid of the obligations all together.
Pensions were a tool used by Unions and Management to achieve certain objectives in the past, such as the continuation of production in the case of the car companies. Essentially both parties knew these obligations would come due and they would in the end be unsustainable, they did not care at the time. Most of the people who ended up negotiating those benefits such as Ron Gettlefinger, are long retired.
If they push the cost onto the PBGC, the pension beneficiaries get cents on a dollar. The lack of planning on the part of beneficiaries is their own problem, do not rely on government or private enterprise to care for your well-being long after you've completed service in industry for them. You are ultimately responsible for your own self care.
I have cases of employees who go without health insurance due to cost, and get hit by a truck due to their own negligence, riding a bike the wrong way on a two way street in violation of traffic laws, and not wearing a helmet yet they expect the state or someone else to pick up the tab.
If hospitals were smart, they would execute wage garnishments for these type of people, since their gross negligence led to the accident in the first place, and if they failed to pay they should throw them in prison, since they are essentially stealing services from hospitals. |
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r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX Reviews:
·row44
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
4 edits | reply to bemis
said by bemis:said by r81984:How can you expect a company to afford to pay for workers who no longer work for them? Workers who make them no money at all?
Let me just say that I am with you--I am against continued pensions now that it's plainly clear they are an unsustainable future nightmare for employers. But the thing is that these companies did promise pensions to these workers and it would not be right to take them away. I think however that the unions need to accept this situation and work out some sort of a deal. Any active employee with over 5 years of service keeps their arrangement. Active employee with less than 5 years gets a lump sum put into a 401K or other retirement account. Those same under-5 employees and new employees get an employer provided contribution either as a base contribution or a match. For reference my employer will put 2% as long as a "match" if I put in 6%... My health case "option" (is it really an option if your choice is that or nothing?) is a high deductible plan. In essence what I have is a catastrophic-coverage plan because I am responsible for 100% of the first $2,000 of my health costs per year, then 20% of them up to a max yearly out of pocket of $10,000. My job required a technical college degree (electronics). I receive no bonus. My salary would be considered at the very low end of average given the number of years of experience I have. So it seems like Verizon union workers probably have quite a lot of things to "give up" before they are down to what I believe is a relatively common private sector job. My company gives everyone 3% into their 401K no matter what then they match up to 6%.
So I put in 6% and my company puts in 9%.
That is for all workers from janitor to CEO.
The only bad thing about a 401K is the management fees which should be illegal. Wallstreet is getting rich off all our retirement saving even if they lose all our money.
My company has one unmanaged s&p matching fund that has like .5% management fee. All the other funds have like 2 to 3% management fees.
The government needs to outlaw management fees for your 401K. I understand there is costs invovled, but 401k management fees should be a flat fee per year and not a %. The flat fee should be only a few dollars a year and the fee should be 0 if you lose money in your fund.
It is a joke that wallstreet gets to steal from our retirement plans. They basically should only be breaking even from 401K plans in management costs and costs should be forced to be low so they cant try to use 401K plans fees to pay for their entire company.
Oddly enough the same stock companies that benefits greatly from our 401K plan fees also rate your employers stock as buy or sell. Huge conflict of interest.
401K stock management companies should 100% independent from any other stock company.
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...brought to you by Carl's Jr. |
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 woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | reply to hottboiinnc
the USPS is only bankrupt because the Repubicants passed a bill requiring them to fully fund their pensions which no one else has to do.What is with all the demonizing us workers.
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BlooMe |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by woody7:the USPS is only bankrupt because the Repubicants passed a bill requiring them to fully fund their pensions which no one else has to do.What is with all the demonizing us workers. Yawn... if this was such a bad thing, why didn't you people repeal this law when you had full control of things from 2009 to 2011.
It is your fault for having the opportunity to solve this problem and choosing to do nothing to fix it.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| I am not really sure who 'you people' are but your statement is utterly ridiculous. Using this logic, the screwed up country is YOUR fault because you didn't get McCain in there when you had the chance.
Fixing the situation with the Post Office is in everyones best interest... not some 'you people'.
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If Romeny hates the 47% so much, why is he always raising the percentage?? |
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woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | thank you.
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BlooMe |
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