 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
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| Frivolous Even more frivolous than the McDonalds spilled coffee case. She should be thrown in jail for filing such a lawsuit.
Not only should it be thrown out with prejudice (meaning it cannot be refiled or appealed), she should have to pay the city's costs of defending this nonsense.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by IowaCowboy:Even more frivolous than the McDonalds spilled coffee case. Actually if you studied that case at all it wasn't so frivolous. If you're going to make a point make sure you educate yourself on what you are talking about. Stop regurgitating stuff your read on the innerwebs. |
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DraziGuy
join:2012-05-25
St Catharines, ON | reply to IowaCowboy
Watch Hot Coffee and then see if you want to rush to judgement on "frivolous" lawsuits when you read something on the internet.
I'm not saying I am defending this particular lady, but on the internet we so rarely get a complete picture or all the facts, and at the end of the day, everyone should be entitled to address their honestly felt grievances in a court of law. |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to BF69
said by BF69:Actually if you studied that case at all it wasn't so frivolous. If you're going to make a point make sure you educate yourself on what you are talking about. Stop regurgitating stuff your read on the innerwebs. What's to study? Some idiot learned at a later age what most of us learned early on, that spilling hot liquids on your skin is hazardous to your health.
I wish McDonald's had sued this woman into legal oblivion for being an idiot.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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| reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by IowaCowboy:Even more frivolous than the McDonalds spilled coffee case. Actually if you studied that case at all it wasn't so frivolous. Disagree. I was eminently frivolous, IMO. She made the choice of attempting to hold a relatively flimsy container, containing what could be assumed to be very hot liquid, between her knees. She made the decision to pull on a pull tab on the top of said container toward herself. Mind you: The tops on these things are well-known for their less-than-stellar attachment to the cup rim. She pulled the top off, further weakening the structural integrity of the container, at which point it collapsed (surprise!) and, because she was pulling it toward herself, spilled its contents into her lap.
She did it to herself.
Jim |
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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
3 edits | reply to BF69
Have to agree with BF69  , the woman in the hot hot ( that McDonald's knew/had been warned about the coffee temps) coffee case required plastic surgery to the groin area I would consider that serious injury.
This womans symtoms don't even make sense for RF exposure (which can have some devastaing effects at HIGH levels), AND because she is a regular at city council meeting she KNEW they were going to install these meters yet made no effort to avoid the area. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by tshirt:Have to agree with BF69 , the woman in the hot hot ( that McDonald's knew/had been warned about the coffee temps) coffee case required plastic surgery to the groin area Here's a list of other things that are also serious injuries:
Self-inflicted gunshot wounds.
Touching hot charcoals with your bare hands.
Sitting in a running vehicle in an enclosed space.
Jumping in front of a moving train or car.
...
It is crazy to hold the companies that make the products involved in self-inflicted stupidity liable for the damages caused by incorrect or inappropriate use of said product. How much common sense does one have to lack to *know* that putting hot beverages near bare skin is a bad idea?
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA | reply to IowaCowboy
And I think the attorney representing her should be disbarred for taking such a frivolous case. |
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IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA Reviews:
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| reply to DraziGuy
Even first graders know that coffee is hot. Stella knew the coffee was hot, her frivolous claim was that the cup did not have a warning on it.
Panera Bread serves coffee to dine-in customers in glass mugs that don't have a warning.
People with basic intelligence know coffee is hot.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). |
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gateguyPremium
join:2001-02-12
Reisterstown, MD Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to pnh102
If i remember the case correctly.
The coffee was served at too high a temperature. As in instant scalding. It would burn your skin through pants or a dress or whatever you happen to be wearing. Instantly.
Inspectors had cited that McDonalds before, for the coffee being too hot, yet they continued to serve it too hot.
The fact that the coffee spilled onto her groin is not the issue. The issue was that it was too hot to be served.
If you had been officially warned numerous times that your dog was dangerous and your dog bit me, should I not be able to seek damages?
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Time for a new message. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by gateguy:The coffee was served at too high a temperature. As in instant scalding. It would burn your skin through pants or a dress or whatever you happen to be wearing. Instantly. That still doesn't change the fact that people bear a reasonable amount of responsibility for their personal safety. Yes the coffee is hot. That's why you don't put it near your bare skin, or put it anywhere where it could come in contact with it.
said by gateguy:If you had been officially warned numerous times that your dog was dangerous and your dog bit me, should I not be able to seek damages? Huge difference here... your example would apply if you chose to interact with an otherwise leashed or contained dog, not if one out on the streets comes and attacks you.
On a related note, that is why most service technicians who work in other peoples' houses require that all pets be contained in a separate room, just to avoid such problems.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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DraziGuy
join:2012-05-25
St Catharines, ON | reply to IowaCowboy
Yes, we all understand that hot is hot. But I don't think the average person would assume that it is served hot enough to cause instant debilitating injuries for life if accidentally spilled. Everyone should be careful, but it isn't like she was handling radioactive waste. It was coffee, and McDonald's had been warned numerous times that a)their cups were too flimsy, and b) the coffee was hot enough to be much more harmful than people would reasonably expect when accepting a cup through a window.
Change the particulars of the case just a little, and have it spill while moving from worker to customer. The drink is still being served too hot for safety under what I think are completely understandable accidental circumstances. People fuck up. They spill shit. And the consequence of messing up a coffee transaction should not be a decade of pain. The temperature setting on the carafe should take into account the fact that people slip, they squeeze to hard, they fumble hand to hand passes. That is what consumer protection lawsuits like these do. Far from being frivolous, they ensure that companies are held responsible when they take risks for the sake of convenience or to save a buck. That they think through the consequences of their actions. And you know what, McDonald's coffee cups and lids are much stronger today than they were fifteen years ago. They are actually substantial.
Should McDonald's be responsible for stupid or clumsy customers? No, probably not. But they should do what is within their power (like keeping coffee out of the instant damage range and having sturdy cup and lid systems) to ensure that the damage from these mistakes in minimized. And if it takes a lawsuit to convince them that it is worth a cent or two per cup to make it safer, fine. Clearly, as evidenced by the numerous reports they had of problems, they weren't going to do it without the stick. |
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tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:. That still doesn't change the fact that people bear a reasonable amount of responsibility for their personal safety.
And corparations have a resposiblity to take reasonable steps to avoid exposing their customers to known hazards.
They had had multiple compliants and claims about the coffee temp and willfully failed to correct the problem.
They served her too hot coffee as the passenger at the drive through, a business that McDonalds started and has spent billions studying and perfecting products and service for.
It is reasonable to assume that, They (McD's), KNEW that drive through customers FREQUENTLY if not always, hold and open their purchases on or over their laps, therefore it is reasonable to assume they should have avoided this potently hazzard.
The only reason this case made news was some pundit saw the "severe burns in the groin area" and decided to TRY to show it as a foolish legal abuse, when in fact it is an open a shut case McD's should have quickly and quietly settled as they had 99% chance of losing.
There are truely unfair judgements and excessive damage awarded for stupidity, but this case was clear cut negilence on McD's part, even if the customer the injury had the known the coffee temp was too hot and that this type of injury (though less severe) had happened at this location before. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by tshirt: And corparations have a resposiblity to take reasonable steps to avoid exposing their customers to known hazards. Which means their employees don't spill hot coffee on you when they serve it.
How is it still McDonald's fault if this customer, after purchasing the product, chooses to uses it wrong (and in a very stupid manner) and gets hurt?
said by tshirt:It is reasonable to assume that, They (McD's), KNEW that drive through customers FREQUENTLY if not always, hold and open their purchases on or over their laps, therefore it is reasonable to assume they should have avoided this potently hazzard. No, it just means these people are idiots. I frequently order hot beverages from fast food places and those go right into the cupholder where they belong. Why should the costs I pay for products and services go up on account on a bunch of idiots who insist on engaging in risky behavior?
The fact that McDonald's had any liability here is sickening.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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| reply to IowaCowboy
There's hot as in "Ow that hurt my tongue, I'd better wait for it to cool" and there's hot as in "That caused second degree burns just by touching me!"
The McDonald's coffee was the latter. Had someone walked in, bought a cup, and tried to drink it, they would have gotten burns in their throat that might have required hospitalization. McDonald's was counting on people not drinking their coffee right away so that the temperature would be in the non-burning range.
In addition, they had been cited previously (2 times, IIRC), for serving coffee that was too hot to be safe. They ignored these warnings and kept at it and they were burned. Or, more accurately, that woman was instantly burned when the coffee hit her lap. Not "ouch that hurts" burned, but hospitalization-and-plastic-surgery-required burned. You don't get burned like that by "normal hot" coffee.
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IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA Reviews:
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| The Wi-Fi case and the McDonald's case are reasons that we need tort reform. The current tort system (particularly here in Massachusetts with all of the ambulance-chasing lawyers you see on TV) would allow me to sue Green Mountain Coffee if I burned myself on a cup of coffee on my Keurig or sue Sears if I touched a hot pan without a potholder on my Kenmore range or burned my self due to not following the written directions on my Weber gas grill. The reason there is more security cameras in a Walmart than in a Vegas casino is all the frivolous slip-n-fall lawsuits served on Walmart on a daily basis. The only place in Walmart that does not have cameras is the restrooms because it is illegal (and I am surprised that Walmart does not restrict restrooms to employees only). I have heard of cases where people have thrown their purses on the floor and throw themselves down intentionally to fake a slip-n-fall (and they withdrew their claim for fear of going to jail when they are shown the security footage).
Now you don't get hot food at McDonalds, it is always served lukewarm. You have to request hot food such as getting the fries straight from the fryolater as opposed to the ones under the heat lamp. And forget about steaming hot burgers. If you want hot food, go to Johnny Rockets or Chick-Fil-A if you have one nearby (there is a Chick-Fil-A about an hour away from me in the eastern part of the state of Mass).
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). |
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gateguyPremium
join:2001-02-12
Reisterstown, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102: I frequently order hot beverages from fast food places and those go right into the cupholder where they belong.
And if in the process of handling the cup, some coffee on the outside of the cup, comes in contact with your skin and instantly scolds it?
You just seem to have a hard time understanding that the coffee was served way too hot. And McDonalds knew it was way too hot.
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Time for a new message. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by gateguy:And if in the process of handling the cup, some coffee on the outside of the cup, comes in contact with your skin and instantly scolds it? It is called being careful. And it is sad how we seem to have devolved into a society in which personal responsibility is for even some of the most basic things is an option.
McDonald's serves what, billions of cups of hot coffee every day and only a handful of select idiots can't seem to figure out how to hold said cups properly? There's no way they can be at fault here because of proven user error.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. |
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to IowaCowboy
quote:
The reason there is more security cameras in a Walmart than in a Vegas casino is all the frivolous slip-n-fall lawsuits served on Walmart on a daily basis.
Interesting... do you think Walmart voluntarily brings the footage to court in legitimate slip-and-fall cases? |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to gateguy
There is no such thing as "coffee too hot to be served" unless they served it boiling. How hot coffee is to be drinkable is a very personal thing. I cannot stand coffee (or any hot drink) that is not so hot that I cannot even SIP it for about 5 minutes. Coffee is supposed to be served too hot to drink, or even sip, without burning your tongue/mouth. You are supposed to let it cool to the degree that YOU LIKE before trying to consume it. After that horrible, horrible person sued McDonald's everyone now is subjected to HER like of how hot coffee should be. Not only that, but Bunn was forced to change their fabulous coffee makers (even the home ones) so that the water in the tank now is not hot and the coffee made is not hot. Mr. Coffee still makes hot coffee but Bunn is afraid to after that insane lawsuit.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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