| reply to Rambo76098
Re: Time to arrest the developer of the program. said by Rambo76098:Once I sign the contract, it ceases to be Verizon's phone. The device is mine, and I'm legally entitled to do with it as I please. Hence the iPhone jailbreaking decision.
No the phone is still Verizon unless you outright purchased it. It 's your phone once the contact ends or you just buy it out. The contract that you signed with Verizon defines who owns the phone and what you can do with it. |
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| I don't have a Verizon contract in front of me, but seems that the ETF fee would make the phone yours once you sign the contract. There is not an option to return the phone and skip the ETF fee...is there? |
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| reply to silentlooker
Wow... You must be a genius, Before you actually made this post, I am sure you have extensively researched criminal law to let us know exactly what law was broken here, Can you let us know what statute they will be using to prosecute. |
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 LightSPremium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
 ·Time Warner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to silentlooker
Have you ever even read a contract that you sign for a mobile carrier? It states, nowhere in it, that they own the phone that you buy.
When you sign the contract, you are signing a service agreement. They are to provide you service, and they essentially give you a general list of limitations / general contract terms.
Why do people sign contracts? Purchasing a phone outright is very expensive. When you sign a contract, you are committing to pay X amount per month, for (usually) a 24-month term.
When you sign, you are also taking ownership of a phone for a subsidized price. This means that, in exchange for paying $199 for a phone (instead of $649) you are paying $199, and also promising you will be a customer for the terms established in your contract. |
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 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
·Cox HSI
 ·Clear Wireless
| reply to silentlooker
Defeating DRM isn't in itself illegal. MGE UPS Systems, Inc. v. GE Consumer and Indus. Inc., No. 08-10521 (5th Cir. July 20, 2010)
You can defeat DRM if the result isn't illegal (such as installing legal software on a phone).
Even if in the contract, that would be a simple tort, not criminal. VZ would have to sue you, in which case they have zero damages since you simply restore the phone and give it back. |
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| reply to LightS
Technically it don't need to say anything in contract. Just read DMCA law, the exemption for jail breaking seems to have expired this year. So technically it's illegal again. |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to silentlooker
said by silentlooker:said by Rambo76098:Once I sign the contract, it ceases to be Verizon's phone. The device is mine, and I'm legally entitled to do with it as I please. Hence the iPhone jailbreaking decision.
No the phone is still Verizon unless you outright purchased it. It 's your phone once the contact ends or you just buy it out. The contract that you signed with Verizon defines who owns the phone and what you can do with it. Wrong. I see you either don't have a postpaid phone, or haven't read your contract. The ownership of the phone is transferred at the time you sign the agreement, which is why if it breaks outside the mfg warranty, you have to pay for the repair or replacement, not the carrier. Same if you lose it or physically damage it, you are on the hook.
If the carrier retained ownership, we would all be paying device lease fees like you do with most dsl/cable/satellite equipment. We pay a lease fee, the company owns the equipment, and is responsible for proper function of the device in case of equipment failure (not caused by physical damage) without regard to manufacturer warranty.
The phone becomes yours, but you agree to the prorated ETF if you break the contract prior to the end of the contract term. Hence why we don't have to return phones when we change service or end a contract early. |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| reply to silentlooker
DMCA is irrelevant when it comes to circumventing DRM when the result is legal (such as installing legal software), so sayith the 5th Circuit. Circumventing DRM is illegal when the purpose is copyright infringement, which obviously isn't the case with the VZW phone.
»www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions%5C···.wpd.pdf |
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| 5th circuit ruling only applies to Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. There are 47 other states which it do not cover. |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to silentlooker
said by silentlooker:Technically it don't need to say anything in contract. Just read DMCA law, the exemption for jail breaking seems to have expired this year. So technically it's illegal again.
True, but Verizon was fined for having Google take down tethering apps, if there's an app out there to do this (which assumably can be downloaded over the LTE frequencies with the conditions on non-restriction), Verizon can't have it removed. |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
4 edits | reply to silentlooker
VZW has presence in each of those states.
In any event, the DMCA reads "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title"...
Circumventing DRM must result in a Title 17 violation to violate the DMCA. Adding apps to a phone or changing its behavior doesn't violate any part of Title 17. It's no different than defeating cell phone carrier locks. |
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 RRedlineRated RPremium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA | reply to silentlooker
It is NOT illegal to jailbreak/root a phone. It does not belong to Verizon, AT&T, etc. They have no more right to tell me what I can do with my phone as Comcast has to tell me what to do to my television. Calm down and allow rationality to overcome your authoritarian nature.
Wireless companies should just focus on delivering voice and data services and quit trying to micromanage HOW people use those services. The reason they gave for locking the bootloader doesn't even make sense. People make a conscious decision to unlock it because there is something they WANT to do with their device that having it locked prevents.
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One nation, under Zod! |
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 JamesonPremium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
kudos:1 | reply to silentlooker
said by silentlooker:said by Rambo76098:Once I sign the contract, it ceases to be Verizon's phone. The device is mine, and I'm legally entitled to do with it as I please. Hence the iPhone jailbreaking decision.
No the phone is still Verizon unless you outright purchased it. It 's your phone once the contact ends or you just buy it out. The contract that you signed with Verizon defines who owns the phone and what you can do with it. Wrong. The only reason why you sign a contract in the 1st place is to get a discount on the cell phone. Once you sign that contract, Verizon gives you a discount on the phone and you pay the difference making the phone yours. |
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| said by Jameson:Wrong. The only reason why you sign a contract in the first place is to get a discount on the cell phone. Once you sign that contract, Verizon gives you a discount on the phone and you pay the difference making the phone yours. Couldn't agree more. Well, you kind of have to take it easy on the phone during the buyer's remorse period. Most carriers have a thing where if you don't like the phone and/or service, you can return it within X amount of days without having to pay ETF (you'd still be charged pro-rated service and non-refundable activation fees). The number of days varies from carrier to carrier. However, once you have kept the phone/service past that period, you must either pay monthly bills or pay ETF and jump ship early. Either way, the phone is yours to keep.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... |
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| reply to silentlooker
Go look up something called "precedent." |
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| said by treyatl2006:Go look up something called "precedent."
another court out of jurisdiction don't have to follow that precedent or no appeal court would ever disagree with each other. |
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| reply to silentlooker
Sounds like someone has a iPhone ha ha. Yes we do have custom roms! |
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| reply to silentlooker
No worries........
Q: The US incarcerates the largest percentage of its citizens as compared to other countries in the world. What's a few hundred thousand (or million) more DRM-evading phone-rooting criminals added to that?
A: A new world record!!!!
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA! |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | reply to treyatl2006
Circuit court precedent is only binding to courts below THAT circuit. While other circuits may cite the opinion they are not bound to it. We saw this with rulings on the Healthcare affordability act. Only a SC ruling is binding to all the courts. |
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| reply to silentlooker
said by silentlooker:said by Rambo76098:Once I sign the contract, it ceases to be Verizon's phone. The device is mine, and I'm legally entitled to do with it as I please. Hence the iPhone jailbreaking decision.
No the phone is still Verizon unless you outright purchased it. It 's your phone once the contact ends or you just buy it out. The contract that you signed with Verizon defines who owns the phone and what you can do with it. this has to be one of the most ignorant comments ever, not to mention a giant troll. I work in wireless, hell I worked for ATT, your contract does not state that your phone is part of it. Thats why when you loose your phone they don't replace it and thats why they sell you insurance. The contract is just for service, it has nothing to do with the phone, that is why providers lock the phone down because they don't want you on other networks.
I can't believe you trolled this whole thread defending large companies and that you thought people who jailbreak should be locked up. That's basically saying anybody who adjust Windows or OS X on their computer should be locked up. |
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