bnceo
join:2007-10-11
Bel Air, MD | Super Sad This is probably one of the saddest things to happen in our country. The warrants to begin with were never hard to get. The gov is simply lazy and wants carte blanche to spy on anyone at any given time. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by bnceo:This is probably one of the saddest things to happen in our country. You'd rank warrant-less wiretapping as one of the saddest things to happen to the US? It wouldn't rank even in the top 10 things on my list of sad historical events (in no particular order):
1. Slavery
2. Civil Rights
3. Suffrage
4. McCarthyism
5. Internment camps
6. 9/11 and subsequent effects/reaction (in general, not just to warant-less wiretapping)
7. Indefinite detainment of "enemy combatants"
8. Vietnam
9. WWII
10. Civil War
Yeah it's definitely not a great moment in US history. And trampling on constitutional rights is always a problem. But put it in just a little perspective on what impact it will have on how many people. Then tell me if it's still one of the saddest things to happen to our country. |
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| because you don't value your freedom.
National Security Agency is really National Spy Agency. Why are they afraid of us? |
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 bTU
join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO | reply to cdru
It could have a huge impact on a lot of people. Maybe it hasn't yet, and maybe it won't if you think the gov't will use this power with restraint and in an ethical fashion. I agree that maybe it shouldn't called the saddest thing to happen to our country, though it has the potential to outrank quite a few of those that you listed.
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He who controls the Spice, controls the universe. |
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bnceo
join:2007-10-11
Bel Air, MD | reply to cdru
If you don't want your freedom, feel free to mail your entire whereabouts and information to the NSA via Fed Ex. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to bTU
said by bTU:It could have a huge impact on a lot of people. Operative key word is "could", meaning the future. You can't have "one of the saddest things to happen in our country" and the impact really not felt yet. |
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| reply to cdru
Yes the listed atrocities are much bigger in scope than this and from my viewpoint, most of them were approved by the Courts as legal despite the obvious trampling of Human and Constitutional rights that "should" have prevented them. God help you if you are on the wrong side of "justice" and/or disagree with populist mentality. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to stone12
said by stone12:because you don't value your freedom.
I'm impressed that you can judge my value of freedom based on one comment that said that this wasn't one of the saddest things in US history. My original reply said nothing about how I felt specifically about the the wiretaps. I just said put it in perspective with other sad moments in history.
It's a phone call. Yes you have a right to privacy. And no the government shouldn't be listening in on it without a warrant. But you're really going to tell me that it ranks above slavery, where the government a big f-u to millions of slaves saying they had no rights, including fundamental rights of humans? Or that women had less rights then men? Or the hundred-thousand-plus Japanese-, German-, and Italian-Americans who were "housed" in internment/relocation/detention camps during WWII without any due process? |
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| everyone has a right to their view and where it falls based on their beliefs. that is one of the rightd we have as amricans- the right to our own thoughts even tho they conflict with others. the travesty is that the government can continue to run roughshod over its citizens. It may not compare to past events but the question really is where will it lead and what other rights will we lose in the future. if we continue to let the government take theswe little "rights" we will not have any and will not be able to do anything about. |
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etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1 | reply to bnceo
... and this is only the beginning. |
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etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1 | reply to cdru
No list should be complete without including domestic chemical warfare 'incidents' like using chicken pox against native Americans. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Ame···pidemics or to infect African Americans with syphilis »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_s···periment
but hey the US is the greatest nation on earth... right? |
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 Mr FelFlynn LivesPremium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY | reply to bnceo
Sad yeah a bit, but I'd say it's closer to one of the stupidest moments than anything else.
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Change the scheme, alter the mood! Electrify the boys and girls if you'd be so kind. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to etaadmin
Did you read what you linked to? It wasn't chicken pox, it possibly was small pox if it actually occurred. And other diseases were brought over by early European settlers just like in many other parts of the world where an outsider infects a local population that has built up an immunity to a disease or pathogen. While such vulnerability might have been used as a weapon of sorts, I'd imagine that far more people were caught by the pandemic that just naturally progressed vs. malicious intent.
No one was intentionally infected with syphilis. All of the individuals that were directly involved with the Tuskegee syphilis experiment already had it. The experiment just withheld treatment, particularly after penicillin was widely accepted for treating syphilis. There were secondary or tertiary infections with wives and kids but they were also not intentionally infected.
Definitely not a shining moments in US history, but not "chemical warfare" by any means. |
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| reply to cdru
WW2? Really? |
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 NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:9
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to cdru
I'd strike #4 and #9 from your list. I'd move #5, #6, and #7 up one place each, and #8 down one place. The replacement #7 would be the "Trail of Tears". The replacement #8 would be the "Alien and Sedition Acts".
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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Donut
join:2005-06-27
Romulus, MI | reply to stone12
When people fear the government there is tyranny. When Governments fear their people there is liberty. (Thomas Jefferson)
Guess the "People" of this country are doing their job.
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Mr. Donut
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etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
kudos:1 | reply to cdru
said by cdru:Did you read what you linked to? It wasn't chicken pox, it possibly was small pox if it actually occurred. And other diseases were brought over by early European settlers just like in many other parts of the world where an outsider infects a local population that has built up an immunity to a disease or pathogen. While such vulnerability might have been used as a weapon of sorts, I'd imagine that far more people were caught by the pandemic that just naturally progressed vs. malicious intent. Yes I did read the content but I'm not a doctor to know what exactly what pathogen it was (chicken, small or whatever) all I know is that according to some statements the then US Army knowingly distributed contaminated blankets among the native American community to wipe them out.
said by cdru:No one was intentionally infected with syphilis. All of the individuals that were directly involved with the Tuskegee syphilis experiment already had it. The experiment just withheld treatment, particularly after penicillin was widely accepted for treating syphilis. There were secondary or tertiary infections with wives and kids but they were also not intentionally infected. Probably not but the doctors left those people in the dark about their medical condition and left them untreated so they can watch them die of syphilis.
said by cdru:
Definitely not a shining moments in US history, but not "chemical warfare" by any means.
Absolutely! I wonder what is going on today? |
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| reply to vikingfannsc
you do not have any rights according to this ruling. |
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 camaro92Question everythingPremium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
 ·Comcast
| reply to cdru
said by cdru:4. McCarthyism
What is going on now is much worse than that. The others on your list belong there no argument there. But the amount of info they have access to, now they can do a lot more on a much bigger scale of accusing people for being a terrorist or whatever label of a particular person and there isn't any oversight, sorry that scares the hell out of me, and I know the "if you aren't doing anything wrong then you don't have to worry" well that can turn into a huge debate but I will stay on track.
McCarthyism only lasted for 4 years, I have a strange feeling that this type power they have is probably going to last a lot longer |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to etaadmin
said by etaadmin:Yes I did read the content but I'm not a doctor to know what exactly what pathogen it was (chicken, small or whatever) Real quick medical lesson: Chicken pox typically causes a rash and blisters (pox) over the body. You get a fever, the rash, and a sore throat. Start to finish is about 2 weeks with only a portion of that where the symptoms are evident. It's uncomfortable, but almost everyone that catches it survives. There are vaccines now, but it is still very prevalent in the world. Prior to the vacination introduction, around a 100 people died annually out of 3-4m infections.
Smallpox gets the fever and rash. Plus bodyache, nausea, vomiting. Then the pox come about 2 weeks later and start to fill with puss, then rupture scabbing over. The scabs fall away leaving permanent scarring. There is no cure once infected. Once infected, mortality rate is about 30% with specific types usually fatal.
Comparing the two is like comparing a sunburn (chickenpox) to a 3rd degree burn (smallpox) over most your body. Both are burns, but they are very different in what they can cause and how they ultimately get treated.
all I know is that according to some statements the then US Army knowingly distributed contaminated blankets among the native American community to wipe them out.
Probably not but the doctors left those people in the dark about their medical condition and left them untreated so they can watch them die of syphilis. |
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