 | Respect to experts I would like to start off saying i moonlight as a house inspector, I took a 2 year course approved by the AIBQ and ANIEB and it was given by ASHII certified instructors. It was very thourough and not mickey mouse course some people assume, but sadly some people who took this course now feel they are experts in all fields of the trades. When i see collegues getting into arguments with skilled trades people it saddens me, we are there for the potential home owner to see if there are any possible issues, and guide them to the appropiate place for deeper advice. As well sadly a lot of these people have never been on a job site, growing up i was a helper to both a plumber and electrician, by no means am i an expert, but i have seen the good the bad and the ugly. all that being said, i just want Nunya and Whizkid to know that the acts of a select few in my field do not represent the opinions of the majority and i tip my hat to them for the fine advice and guidance they offer this forum. |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA kudos:6 Reviews:
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| Well said. I'd just like to add that I consider home/house inspectors to be experts as well. I was well served with the one that inspected my home. He didn't find everything and much of what he found wasn't perhaps overly important. I was impressed simply by the amount of things he looked at that I would never have thought of as possible problems. I don't expect a home/house inspector to be an expert in every field instead they need to be more of a generalist. I expect them to have sufficient knowledge of all the major trades to spot trouble and where necessary I expect them to recommend detailed inspection by a mason, electrician, plumber, roofer and so on.
Just like any other profession there are good ones and not so good ones. Ask friends, neighbors and coworkers to find out who they used and whether or not they were satisfied with the results. Then hire the most recommended one. Don't hire the cheapest inspector and expect an above average performance.
I don't understand anybody who would consider making as important a decision as buying a house without getting an expert opinion from a home/house inspector. -- Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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 garys_2kPremium join:2004-05-07 Farmington, MI Reviews:
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| reply to telco_mtl I agree. I'm a licensed P.E. and I ALWAYS ask for help from the trade masters (not so much from the helpers) when non-typical situations come up. I figure they're more likely than I have to have seen it before and I'm always willing to learn.
Sometimes I just know when to leave stuff to the pros. I had a new garage door installed at my house a few months ago. Yeah, I'm an engineer and yeah, I know how those doors work, but I asked the installer if he wanted any bottled water or if he needed to use the bathroom -- otherwise I left him alone and told him he could knock on the door if he wanted to talk to me.
He was really surprised later when I told him I was an engineer. He said that he would've expected all sorts of supervision, free advice and "guidance" during the job. I told him that I figured he could handle his own job.
I come here to learn and learn I have. The real professionals here are awesome for taking the time to share their knowledge with the rest of us. A very big THANK YOU! from my heart to all of you! |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO kudos:8 Reviews:
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1 edit | reply to telco_mtl I was kind of disappointed to see the bashing of home inspectors as a whole because of one knuckle head (Not the OP, but in regard to a previous thread). A home inspector is a vital first line of defense for every home buyer. No person can be an expert in every field. Just like any other occupation, there are some bad apples in every bunch. That will never change. I can think of 10 knucklehead electricians right of the top of my head. Guys who have no business touching wire and probably bribed their way to a license. Likening the occupation of a home inspector to other menial jobs (I think "fry cook" was tossed about) isn't appropriate either. I still highly recommend a home inspection to potential buyers. I think most mortgage companies require them now anyway, right?
An expert home inspector is worth their weight in gold. -- ...because I care. |
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 | said by nunya:I was kind of disappointed to see the bashing of home inspectors as a whole because of one knuckle head. A home inspector is a vital first line of defense for every home buyer. No person can be an expert in every field. Just like any other occupation, there are some bad apples in every bunch. That will never change. I can think of 10 knucklehead electricians right of the top of my head. Guys who have no business touching wire and probably bribed their way to a license. Likening the occupation of a home inspector to other menial jobs (I think "fry cook" was tossed about) isn't appropriate either. I still highly recommend a home inspection to potential buyers. I think most mortgage companies require them now anyway, right?
An expert home inspector is worth their weight in gold. I may have come across the wrong way bashing the field, but there isnt enough control in the field of inspections, here in canada the real estate market is still fairly good, and these people are in high demand, sadly too many people who have no prior building experience are doing it.
Some consumers are blinded by the glitz that some of these guys put on. When i bought my home, the inspector i hired did an excellent job, his report was clear and detailed. He was barely litterate and had many spelling and grammar errors, to the untrained eye it could be seen as a terrible report, personally i found it great. On the other hand my friend had his house inspected, he got a hard covered binder with lots of photos and checklists, he thinks its great, i looked at it, its 10 pounds of fluff.
My point was i see guys even around where i live who will contradict the word of an experienced electrician who was brought in post inspection. |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | reply to telco_mtl we are there for the potential home owner to see if there are any possible issues, ... You are not correct, perhaps you should consider mentoring someone experienced like myself for a few inspections till you get this correct. You are looking for current issue NOT possible issues (well that too but the focus is on what is there NOW).
i have seen the good the bad and the ugly.
You seem to be new in business and for you to target an experienced home inspector and calling yourself someone who has seen 'the good the bad and the ugly' is an overstatement. -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | reply to telco_mtl All,
Stop making statements like, 'the inspector you hired was the best of the best and you really liked his work' unless you are a home inspector yourself and can see what he did and if he missed anything.
You might think that your inspector was great until you start finding problems.
For example (I love using examples).
You buy a house in summer with a nice deck at the back, you get it inspected, inspection was great, you love your inspector and you tell stories to your friends.
Winter comes, it snows heavily and you realized that your high eff. furnace stopped working. You find out the exhaust pipe and fresh air intake both were under the deck, show accumulates in the winter, exhaust gases go back through the fresh air intake, sensor in the furnace senses that and shuts off the furnace. You then realize that the inspector that you had hired (who you thought was the best, missed that part).
So lets not get carried away with your inspection experience.
Summary: You dont know if an inspector was great until you start seeing problems.
I can give 10 more examples if you like. -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 Nick_LPremium join:2003-01-22 Pittsburgh, PA | said by Viper:I can give 10 more examples if you like. Please don't. |
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO | reply to telco_mtl I am sure there are good home inspectors out there, but my own experience as well as that of almost everyone I know who has purchased a house would indicate that most home-inspectors think they are much more of experts than they actually are.
During the purchase of my house I walked around with the inspector and discussed the mechanicals of the house with him. One of my concerns was that the house contained knob and tube wiring. I was distracted by a phone call with the real estate agent while the HI looked around the basement. I later came down the stairs and this was the conversation:
ME: "So how much knob & tube did you find?" HI: "None, this house is fine." ME: "None? I can see two separate circuits of K&T from where I am standing" HI: "Oh, that isn't knob and tube, there are any white thingies" ME: "Um, look another 3 feet to right" HI: "Oh yeah, I will add that to my report"
Later conversation: HI: "These radiator systems are great. The only think you have to worry about is the pump going out" ME: "This is a steam radiator, there is no pump" HI: "Are you sure?" ME: "All of the radiators are single pipe. Besides, we are looking right at the boiler. There isn't a pump" HI: "Oh, well I will change that in the report."
Keep in mind I am a doctor, not a home inspector or tradesperson of any kind. I shouldn't know more than the inspector. I realize that it is difficult for inspectors to know everything about everything. However, it seems like the vast majority use this "checklist" based approach which seems to be overly concerned with whether particular appliances have recalls rather than taking a careful look at the condition of said item or the workmanship (or lack thereof) of installation.
Oh, and this experience clearly strikes a chord with many homeowners. Why else would shows like "Holmes on Homes" be so popular? -- Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks! |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | said by Fronkman:I am sure there are good home inspectors out there, but my own experience as well as that of almost everyone I know who has purchased a house would indicate that most home-inspectors think they are much more of experts than they actually are.
During the purchase of my house I walked around with the inspector and discussed the mechanicals of the house with him. One of my concerns was that the house contained knob and tube wiring. I was distracted by a phone call with the real estate agent while the HI looked around the basement. I later came down the stairs and this was the conversation:
ME: "So how much knob & tube did you find?" HI: "None, this house is fine." ME: "None? I can see two separate circuits of K&T from where I am standing" HI: "Oh, that isn't knob and tube, there are any white thingies" ME: "Um, look another 3 feet to right" HI: "Oh yeah, I will add that to my report"
Later conversation: HI: "These radiator systems are great. The only think you have to worry about is the pump going out" ME: "This is a steam radiator, there is no pump" HI: "Are you sure?" ME: "All of the radiators are single pipe. Besides, we are looking right at the boiler. There isn't a pump" HI: "Oh, well I will change that in the report."
Keep in mind I am a doctor, not a home inspector or tradesperson of any kind. I shouldn't know more than the inspector. I realize that it is difficult for inspectors to know everything about everything. However, it seems like the vast majority use this "checklist" based approach which seems to be overly concerned with whether particular appliances have recalls rather than taking a careful look at the condition of said item or the workmanship (or lack thereof) of installation.
Oh, and this experience clearly strikes a chord with many homeowners. Why else would shows like "Holmes on Homes" be so popular? The above conversation between you and your HI does not hurt my feelings. There are good and bad inspectors out there just like in any other field/trade.
The problem here is with you not hiring the right home inspector and is not with the home inspectors in general. If you knew that much about building envelope then I would have expected you to hire a better HI.
If you went by what the real estate recommended then its again your fault and you should talk to your realtor about that. -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | reply to Nick_L said by Nick_L:said by Viper:I can give 10 more examples if you like. Please don't. And your point is? -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 | reply to Viper said by Viper: we are there for the potential home owner to see if there are any possible issues, ... You are not correct, perhaps you should consider mentoring someone experienced like myself for a few inspections till you get this correct. You are looking for current issue NOT possible issues (well that too but the focus is on what is there NOW). i have seen the good the bad and the ugly.
You seem to be new in business and for you to target an experienced home inspector and calling yourself someone who has seen 'the good the bad and the ugly' is an overstatement. when i said the good bad and ugly i never targeted home inspectors if i was unclear i am sorry, i meant from when i was working on jobsites as a laborer for an electrican and a plumber, i was not reffering to inspectors. as for current issues, yes, that is the reason that i always include the temperature, season, conditions (snow, mud etc) on a report as things can change from day to day. But possible issues that could crop up are always somthing to include if you mention they need to be monitored. Roof that is getting on in years, may not need replacing right away but should be monitored etc.
same thing goes for drainage, I may come by on a warm july day, ground is dry, no signs of water infiltration, but a visual shows the lot is graded towards the house, you will include a mention that drainage may be an issue, |
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO | reply to Viper said by Viper:If you went by what the real estate recommended then its again your fault and you should talk to your realtor about that. Nice of you to just write off my experience by saying that my realtor is the one at fault, not the home inspector who had no business collecting money for the work he was doing.
In fact, I didn't use my realtor at all. I instead obtained recommendations from friends, scoured internet sites like Angie's List. We had a list of 10 companies that we asked for sample reports and resumes of the inspectors. We ultimately chose a company with a BBB rating of A+, an inspector with 25 years of "experience" along with all of the various licensing and certifications. I don't know what more we could have done. -- Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks! |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO kudos:8 Reviews:
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 mattmagPremium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-04-09 NW Illinois kudos:3 | reply to Viper said by Viper:The problem here is with you not hiring the right home inspector and is not with the home inspectors in general. If you knew that much about building envelope then I would have expected you to hire a better HI.
Actually, the problem here is that you lost your credibility several days ago, and you may need to do some serious damage control to restore that, if its even possible... |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | reply to Fronkman said by Fronkman:said by Viper:If you went by what the real estate recommended then its again your fault and you should talk to your realtor about that. Nice of you to just write off my experience by saying that my realtor is the one at fault, not the home inspector who had no business collecting money for the work he was doing. In fact, I didn't use my realtor at all. I instead obtained recommendations from friends, scoured internet sites like Angie's List. We had a list of 10 companies that we asked for sample reports and resumes of the inspectors. We ultimately chose a company with a BBB rating of A+, an inspector with 25 years of "experience" along with all of the various licensing and certifications. I don't know what more we could have done. I never tried to write-off your experience, I actually gave you credit for your knowledge.
There are good inspectors and there are bad inspectors and unfortunately you hired (unintentionally) someone who was not good enough (based on what was said, i was not there nor i have seen that report so I can not say for sure). -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | reply to mattmag said by mattmag:said by Viper:The problem here is with you not hiring the right home inspector and is not with the home inspectors in general. If you knew that much about building envelope then I would have expected you to hire a better HI.
Actually, the problem here is that you lost your credibility several days ago, and you may need to do some serious damage control to restore that, if its even possible... Not really. I am not really worried about it. You should relax too. -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 Nick_LPremium join:2003-01-22 Pittsburgh, PA | reply to Viper said by Viper:said by Nick_L:said by Viper:I can give 10 more examples if you like. Please don't. And your point is? Your postings here contain a higher than average percentage of hyperbole and a woefully inadequate quantity of factual information.
Also, have you heard the one about it being better to remain silent and...
I can' make it much clearer without violating the guidelines of this forum. |
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 ViperCertified Home Inspector join:2012-03-22 Toronto | inadequate quantity of factual information. Every example that I have given you is based on fact. I dont like stories. If you are unable to extract the fact out of my examples then you know very little about my business and you should then.....(see below)
Also, have you heard the one about it being better to remain silent and...
so remain silent... -- Certified Home Inspector Certified Level 1 Thermographer |
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO | said by Viper:Every example that I have given you is based on fact. I dont like stories. My "story" was full of all kinds of facts. My home inspector was unable to identify knob and tube wiring and tell the difference between steam and hot water radiators. Another home inspector I have dealt with railed endlessly about FPE breakers but completely ignored the multiwire circuit which terminated on a tandem breaker on the same phase. (theoretical vs. ACTUAL danger)
If you ask my personal opinion, I don't really put a lot of stock into the report of ANY HI. Generalists with limited or no practical experience (either in a trade or advanced-level DIY) can only provide a general level of information. I think most people should assume that the HI missed at least 50% of the problems in the home and factor that into the price negotiations.
In the end, I did my own inspection and made sure that the "official" report included my findings by essentially holding the HI's hand. The sad fact is that the seller will never believe the findings of the buyer but are forced to correct issues that appear in the official report. -- Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks! |
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