 | reply to StuartMW
Re: Drones vulnerable to terrorist hijacking, researchers say Hasn't Iran already used spoofing to take control of a U.S. drone? Of course, the US denies that spoofing caused them to lose control of it, while Iran claims that they did indeed take control of it via a cyber warfare effort. In any case, the drone was hardly damaged, which means either the Iranians did take control of it remotely or the drone malfunctioned and landed via a flat spin (thus causing little damage). -- Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999 |
|
|
|
 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium join:2000-08-06 Galt's Gulch kudos:2 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
| said by KodiacZiller:Hasn't Iran already used spoofing to take control of a U.S. drone? From what I've read that's conjecture. The US claims it isn't possible.
Military drones uses military (encrypted) GPS and probably use inertial navigation as well.
Iran may have hacked into the radio control system though. -- Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow! |
|
 | reply to StuartMW This is to the thread and all the posts in general.
Excellent discussion and debate by different posters.
Overall though it seems to me that collectively the posts are making the facts more complicated and convoluted.
The whole technological story is that the drones being talked about are guided by controllers using civilian GPS tracking and guidance.
The "hijackers" can gain control of the drones without the controllers knowing it and steer it to anywhere they want, again without the drones genuine controller knowing it. End of story.
As an addendum: There was talk about tracking or locating the drones on radar. Between the size of the drone and it's profile painting it with civilian radar isn't especially effective which is why planes are required to have transponders. |
|
 | reply to StuartMW said by StuartMW:From what I've read that's conjecture. The US claims it isn't possible.
Military drones uses military (encrypted) GPS and probably use inertial navigation as well. Yes, the drones do not rely on GPS all that much according to Wikipedia:
quote: "GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170... The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system".[16] Inertial navigation continues to be used on military aircraft despite the advent of GPS because GPS signal jamming and spoofing are relatively simple operations.[17]
and:
quote: Dan Goure, an analyst at the Lexington Institute, stated the largely intact airframe ruled out the possibility of an engine or navigational malfunction: "Either this was a cyber/electronic warfare attack system that brought the system down or it was a glitch in the command-and-control system."
We will probably never know for sure what happened. But it appears both the Russians and Chinese were interested in having a look at the drone (China has obtained most of its advanced military tech through espionage). -- Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999 |
|
 | reply to NormanS said by NormanS:said by cmaengdewd :2. Many of the drones desired to be used do not rely on GPS so will not have this issue. "Meaconing" is as old as radio navigation. The British used it during WWII to guide Luftwaffe bombers away from target areas. Unless those drones which do not rely on GPS are relying on self-contained systems, "inertial navigation", they will be subject to "meaconing". Actually they don't rely on GPS or inertial NAV but Mark I Model 0 eyeball. Those drones are operated within visual line of sight of their operator. |
|
 | reply to StuartMW Texas Students Hijack a U.S. Government Drone in Midair (Popsci)
quote: The U.S. government, understandably, doesn't want its drone technology to fall out of the sky and into other peoples' laps. But being able to hijack a drone and control it? That's even worse. And a team of researchers has done it for 1,000 bucks.
The University of Texas at Austin team successfully nabbed the drone on a dare from the Department of Homeland Security. They managed to do it through spoofing, a technique where a signal from hackers pretends to be the same as one sent to the drone's GPS.
We've seen spoofing before; it was reportedly used to bring down the drone that crashed in Iran last year.
The kids should have gotten more than $1000. Since when is DHS on a budget? |
|
 | reply to StuartMW GPS Hijacking: Team of U.S. Faculty, Students Take Control of Drone (PJ Media)
quote: On May 9, a Russian Sukhoi Superjet 100 slammed into Mount Salak in Indonesia, killing all 45 people on board. The plane, a demonstration version of the Superjet series, was on a promotion tour, carrying journalists and VIPs for a planned 30-minute flight. Alexander Yablonstev, an experienced pilot, was said to be familiar with local terrain. According to Travel Daily News, the air traffic control tower (ATC) did not realize that the plane was missing until at least 20 minutes after the crash. Recordings show that a flight request made by pilot Yablonstev was neither acknowledged nor answered by the ATC.
While the Indonesian and Russian governments have drawn no official conclusions, Russian media is promoting the idea that the Superjet 100 was brought down by electronic jamming by Americans at the Indonesian airport. It is, they opine, a case of Western industrial espionage. Komsolskaya Pravda, once the voice of the Communist youth movement and now Russias top tabloid, quoted an unnamed general of the GRU (Russian military intelligence) on the subject and reinforced the theory with comments from Sukhoi officials.
Realistically, it is hard to argue that the Superjet posed a competitive threat to the United States. There is only one American commercial aircraft manufacturer, Boeing, and it helped Sukhoi with the Superjet design. More likely, Sukhoi feared its first venture in commercial aviation would collapse if a flaw in the aircraft caused the crash.
But could the planes instruments have been jammed? The Superjet has a modern glass cockpit in which instruments are displayed on computer screens rather than the old-fashioned steam gauges. These systems depend in part on guidance and control systems, including GPS. Much to the consternation of the FAA as well to the FBI and other intelligence agencies commercial aircraft GPS guidance systems have been affected by electronic events, including jamming.
Closer to home, an FAA report released in 2011 covered the topic of GPS Privacy Jammers and RFI at Newark, regarding jamming of the GBAS system at the Newark International Airport.
|
|
 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium join:2005-01-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:3 Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| said by goalieskates: quote: ... Komsolskaya Pravda, once the voice of the Communist youth movement and now Russias top tabloid, quoted an unnamed general of the GRU (Russian military intelligence) on the subject ...
And if you can't trust the GRU (ex-KGB > ex-NKVD), who can you trust? -- "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775 |
|
 | said by Blackbird:said by goalieskates: quote: ... Komsolskaya Pravda, once the voice of the Communist youth movement and now Russias top tabloid, quoted an unnamed general of the GRU (Russian military intelligence) on the subject ...
And if you can't trust the GRU (ex-KGB > ex-NKVD), who can you trust? LMAO. These days, you can't trust many of them, if any.
Still, the idea that trucks with personal jammers are already causing problems at airports like Newark tells me this stuff isn't ready for prime time yet. Just because you can doesn't mean you should - at least till the kinks are worked out. |
|