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boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

reply to InvalidError

Re: Electric Corridors and Health

said by InvalidError:

said by boogi man:

there have been some reports over the years of clusters of cancer and other odd health concerns that seem to be clustered around HV transmission lines think 1MV+ however there was nothing proven conclusively.

There aren't many UHV power lines in the world and the few that exist are for very long hauls over uninhabited areas. Many 1MV projects got canned because it is harder to work with and low demand for 1MV components make them more expensive than what they might save.

Most long-haul lines today are still 700-850kV stepped down to 100-400kV before hitting urban power distribution rings. If there are HV lines going through your neighborhood, they are most likely ~300kV.

cool learn something new every day
--
my site


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·magicjack.com

reply to markf
I seem to recall that about 15-20 years ago, there was stories on the nightly news about the "dangers" of living near/under HV lines.

I do remember that because of what we had heard/read, when we were out home shopping, we avoided homes that were near, or under HV Lines.

I forgot all about that, until I read your post. Funny how at one time the media and "watch dog" groups were warning of the dangers of HV lines [which have for the most part been proven false].
The only danger is if the line falls on you or your house, or shorts to ground. Plus the annoying "buzz".
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Snakeoil:

I seem to recall that about 15-20 years ago, there was stories on the nightly news about the "dangers" of living near/under HV lines.

I do remember that because of what we had heard/read, when we were out home shopping, we avoided homes that were near, or under HV Lines.

I forgot all about that, until I read your post. Funny how at one time the media and "watch dog" groups were warning of the dangers of HV lines [which have for the most part been proven false].
The only danger is if the line falls on you or your house, or shorts to ground. Plus the annoying "buzz".

the overhead powerlines WAG @ 20kV? in old 'hood buzzed 24/7 so glad the new 'hood has all underground everything.
--
my site

ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·VOIPo
·Verizon Broadban..
·RoadRunner Cable
·Northland Cable ..

reply to scross

said by scross:

When I was a kid, one of the schools I attended had these lines running through the parking lot and part of the athletic fields (out past the end zone). Generations of children attended that school, with no negative effects that I'm aware of.

There were a couple of interesting phenomena, though:

1. On rainy or really humid days, the lines would crackle incessantly (they always hummed a bit). Kind of freaky to hear if you weren't used to it, but it was something that you quickly became accustomed to.

2. Under the right conditions, cars parked under or even near the lines would develop a kind of "static electricity" feel to them, due to an induced electrical current. This was erratic, though, where one person might feel it but the next one might not (it may have depended a lot on what kind of shoes they were wearing and so on) and required a gentle, back-of-the-fingers touch against the metal in order to feel it. It was a very weird sensation if you didn't know to expect it. As far as I know, though, there were no real negative consequences to this - for the people or the cars.

I visit the US National WhiteWater Center here in town and they have a pair of HV lines running through their property and parking lot.

The lines crackle a lot. Not just when it is raining or humid. These lines are less than a mile from a coal fired generation plant.

You're not kidding about the static electricity bit. I've watched still wet kayakers touch their cars and jump from the electrical snap they get when they're parked under the lines.

Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16

2 edits

reply to cdru

said by cdru:

EMF strength for point sources (e.g. an appliance) is 1/r^2, and for linear sources (power lines) it's 1/r.

As far as health concerns, you aren't going to get any definitive answer one way or another, especially here. You will have people that insist that it causes every malady from ingrown toenails to cancer, and you'll have people that insist it is 100% safe. And unfortunately, there's medical and scientific evidence that supports but does not prove any and all of the above.

Personally, I wouldn't live under HV power lines, but more for aesthetic reasons, not health concerns. Plus, the higher the voltage/current, the larger the setback from the lines. I don't think I've ever seen very high voltage lines that run through residential neighborhoods.

This pretty much sums it up. There were studies done, the earlier ones were in Northern Europe/Scandinavia, I believe, which you might be able to find.

Having been raised in a house with a backyard that ended in a high-tension right-of-way, with 125 foot-plus (probably) pylons, I can confirm the aural component especially when the humidity was high (cracking, buzzing), the olfactory and "feeling" (probably ionization), as well as the climbing (low level) temptation for the craziest amongst us.

From a physical health standpoint, there are/were definitely folks that developed differing forms of cancer later in life that also lived proximate, but, of course, there would unfortunately be such cases no matter where they lived. I doubt there was any study on just these neighborhood bisecting lines (or that included them), which were probably of less voltage/current than what you are referring to.

If you can hear it, smell it, and even at times feel it, it certainly have _some_ effect.

With background radiation increasing, it becomes more and more difficult to show causation, which the industries involved don't mind at all.

They are hideous looming structures, and unless there is a niche market for pylon fetishists, and/or are latter proven/thought to somehow be beneficial (a twist on Wilhelm Reich, perhaps...) it would seem that their proximity would only deflate resale value.

Yes, there is always risk in the world, but, especially since you mention young children, why take even any minimal chance, it what is essentially and on-going uncontrolled, unmonitored experiment?

Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16

1 edit

reply to Ken

said by Ken:

Just down the road from us there is a pretty large HV line, the towers are about 150 feet tall. Just recently someone bought the parcel at the top left corner of this intersection and built a really nice house next to the other newer home. Unlike the other house which faces east, the new house faces south directly at the HV lines. The driveway comes down and lines up with that giant tower that is just across the street. When they go to sell I bet they take a big hit because of those lines. The worst part is they could have really minimized the look of the lines, by just facing the house east instead of south.

Perhaps they are simply slightly confused Pylon ... worshipers, and have been waiting for that particular parcel, to build on, with that specific orientation for years?

If so, they should definitely alert Love Tractor, to the apparent present presence of abundant surrounding tillable soil...


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

reply to Bobby_Peru

said by Bobby_Peru:

...
As far as health concerns, you aren't going to get any definitive answer one way or another, especially here. You will have people that insist that it causes every malady from ingrown toenails to cancer, and you'll have people that insist it is 100% safe. And unfortunately, there's medical and scientific evidence that supports but does not prove any and all of the above.

Personally, I wouldn't live under HV power lines, but more for aesthetic reasons, not health concerns. ...

If you can hear it, smell it, and even at times feel it, it certainly have _some_ effect.
...
Yes, there is always risk in the world, but, especially since you mention young children, why take even any minimal chance, it what is essentially and on-going uncontrolled, unmonitored experiment?

Yeah, I recall reading some study on an increase in leukemia cases related to families living near HT lines. Then there is EMF radiation and effects. I guess one could shield their house...but forget about cellphone signal!

Then again, I saw some cool effects...

»2.bp.blogspot.com/_eR9cIzLTXc8/S···ld01.jpg
--
Splat


boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL

those fluorescent tubes?



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

reply to markf
I'd rather live near an electrical pylon corridor than an airport landing/take-off corridor.

One time, my son had soccer games under such an airport take-off corridor. Man was it noisy. I think it's worse than a landing corridor, because airplanes on take off have their engines at full throttle.


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
Reviews:
·Callcentric

reply to Ken
That looks like flat nothing there. the towers probably add to it as give at least something to look at. Plus maybe if the weather is right maybe they will put on a light show. Heck go put some fluorescent tubes with color glass etc. below the towers to make it pretty at night.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1

reply to markf
Sounds like some posters have health concerns about the proximity of the high voltage transmission lines. There are still many areas where the electric grid and lines don't reach. I understand that in some areas there is no electricity (or cell phone service) for hundreds of miles they may consider relocating to. That should be comforting to those who have concerns about the emf.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1

reply to Bobby_Peru

said by Bobby_Peru:

said by Ken:

Just down the road from us there is a pretty large HV line, the towers are about 150 feet tall. Just recently someone bought the parcel at the top left corner of this intersection and built a really nice house next to the other newer home. Unlike the other house which faces east, the new house faces south directly at the HV lines. The driveway comes down and lines up with that giant tower that is just across the street. When they go to sell I bet they take a big hit because of those lines. The worst part is they could have really minimized the look of the lines, by just facing the house east instead of south.

Perhaps they are simply slightly confused Pylon ... worshipers, and have been waiting for that particular parcel, to build on, with that specific orientation for years?

If that location is acceptable and desirable by the person(s) that built the house why are we even questioning it? It's his decision and his alone.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1

reply to cableties
My cell phone works just fine under them.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

reply to TheMG
It's been a while, but what I remember is that it might completely wipe-out AM stuff, but FM stuff was mostly unaffected.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

reply to Snakeoil
IIRC, one of the outcomes of health studies concerning power lines DID point to problems related to them. But they supposedly traced this back to the creosote that's used to treat the bottom part of your standard wooden pole. I don't remember any particular changes being made related to this finding, but I assume that there were. And I don't remember any particular findings related to HV lines.


TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:1

reply to scross

said by scross:

It's been a while, but what I remember is that it might completely wipe-out AM stuff, but FM stuff was mostly unaffected.

Yes, FM is mostly unaffected as it is naturally very noise-immune.

However it can wreak havoc on AM transmissions at virtually any frequency. I've run into that a number of times with my job and have had to pinpoint the powerline hardware that was the source of the noise so that the utility could come and repair them.

A damaged/dirty insulator, loose hardware, or an arrestor that is breaking down can render any AM receiver in its proximity virtually unusable pretty much all the way up to microwave frequencies. Even minor arcing produces impulse noise across pretty much the whole spectrum, getting weaker as you go up in frequency.


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

said by TheMG:

However it can wreak havoc on AM transmissions at virtually any frequency. I've run into that a number of times with my job and have had to pinpoint the powerline hardware that was the source of the noise so that the utility could come and repair them.

When I lived in Plantation my home was about 400 feet east of 2 135Kv transmission lines and they rendered receiving anything west of me on HF impossible and to the east was sketchy as well and that was with a 11 element log periodic with about a 20 dB front to back ratio.

Tried using a long wire antenna for north and south orientation, pffft no way Jose...

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


jimkyle
Btrieve Guy
Premium
join:2002-10-20
Oklahoma City, OK
kudos:2
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest

Back in the mid-60s, I was an enthusiastic ham (K5JKX) and lived only a couple of miles from the local TV antenna farm, where both channels 4 and 9 had powerful transmitters. The difference between their carrier frequencies was exactly 144 MHz -- and because of dirty power-line insulators, they mixed to form a jamming signal that totally blocked the lower end of the 2-meter band!
--
Jim Kyle


markf

join:2008-01-24
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

reply to markf
I guess there is no conclusion to this definitively. It doesn't matter at this point anyways as the property I was interested has since been sold.

We currently live only about 250 m from a power corridor and I've never noticed any noise when walking along the path under them, but next time I'll have a closer listen.

I know that the resale values are lower. That is why I would be interested in the first place (more house, less cost) and there was a clear discount priced in. Not only that, the lot was very large for this area and a number of people just make an opening in their fences, put a gate and use the corridor as either a play field (there are a few "soccer" fields right behind some of the houses) or vegetable gardens.



aannoonn

@optonline.net

reply to cdru

Click for full size
said by cdru:

I don't think I've ever seen very high voltage lines that run through residential neighborhoods.

Above is where my wife grew up on Montreal Island.

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