scross
join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN | reply to Fronkman
Re: got my smart meter today said by Fronkman:They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills. I don't know if that's necessarily the safest assumption to make. IF they have installed the remote disconnect capability in a particular meter, we would expect that they did so with the intent of actually using that capability someday. And IF the capability is there, then they WILL BE tempted to use it, in order to justify the expense of the switch itself.
As a business-person, I can think of many ways where a utility might creatively use the easy-on/easy-off capabilities of a remote disconnect feature, since there is no truck-roll expense involved and there's minimal delay. Some of these uses might even be justifiable. Remember, too, that not all utilities are as civically-minded as yours and mine might be. Don't forget that Enron and friends went so far as to have entire power-generation plants shut down on short notice whenever it was economically convenient for them to do so (it drove short-term power prices up dramatically). This caused rolling blackouts, and people sometimes DIED because of these, but AFAIK nobody was ever really held accountable for this. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
Re: got my smart meter today said by Jack_in_VA:said by leibold:There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).
That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments. Hmmm. Our local electric cooperative is actually run by people who are elected by the members. Members are everyone who has an account. Where do you get your 99.99% figure? |
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 grobinetteSoutheast of disorderPremium,Mod
join:2001-01-27
Springfield, VA
kudos:1 | reply to jchambers28
Re: got my smart meter today Okay guys, back to the technical aspects of smart meters please. |
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| reply to jchambers28
What does the A and the B mean on the meter? |
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| reply to jchambers28
I was talking to a engineer who works for my poco he said the government is not allowing them to build anymore plants till 2020. Hence that's why they want people to conserve. |
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| reply to leibold
Thanks, I understand it now. It was the fact that the toggle twists rather than moving up and down, and that a magnet in it makes it stick firmly one way or the other that I was missing. |
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| reply to jchambers28
said by jchambers28:I was talking to a engineer who works for my poco he said the government is not allowing them to build anymore plants till 2020. Hence that's why they want people to conserve.
Yes, and they pay a demand charge when demand is above a certain amount at certain times of the day.
Time of day billing would match this somewhat to end user usage, and encourage people to use less during peak periods. It would encourage people to do things such as use programmable thermostats instead of say, leaving their heat pump or central A/C running all day at a constant temp even when no one is home. And if it doesn't encourage people to do so, they'll simply pay for their appropriate usage instead of other subsidizing them.
But it's not that they're not building plants. They are not going to build plants that produce cheap electricity such as coal fired plants, because those are going to be expensive to run with new regulations regarding emissions. |
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Zach 58Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota
1 edit | reply to jchambers28
I would guess the 'A' in the darkened circle indicates the meter is receiving power. On my three-phase GE meter, I have 'A', 'B' and 'C' icons that look exactly like the 'A' on yours. If any of the three phases go missing, which on rare occasion they do  , the corresponding icon blinks. I didn't see a 'B' in your pics but if it's there and looks like the 'A'; the 'A' indicates voltage present, on one side of the of the 120/240 service and 'B' indicates voltage is present on the other. Form 2S Electromechanical meters won't register usage if either 'hot' is lost. New electronics monitor both hots with respect to ground and will register usage if either is lost.
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Zach |
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| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:said by leibold:There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).
That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments. Yeah, well you couldn't be more wrong. Cooperatives serve about 12% of the population and they are member owned with members being able to sit on the board and make decisions.
We also get money back from them too.  |
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| reply to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:[
They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills.
They don't even disconnect people here for late payment. To get disconnected here you need to be seriously late, as in 2 months or more and you'll get letters, phone calls and a red tag on your door well before they flip the switch and cut you off.
Targeted rolling blackouts may make sense, but this doesn't happen in most location in the US, so it wouldn't really make sense for the POCO to install it for this purpose. |
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scross
join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN | said by fifty nine:said by Fronkman:[
They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills.
They don't even disconnect people here for late payment. To get disconnected here you need to be seriously late, as in 2 months or more and you'll get letters, phone calls and a red tag on your door well before they flip the switch and cut you off. Targeted rolling blackouts may make sense, but this doesn't happen in most location in the US, so it wouldn't really make sense for the POCO to install it for this purpose. And they can do rolling blackouts without smart meters. They've been doing them for a while now without smart meters. That's the way they'd normally handle it around here, too (mutiple warnings), but I'm not sure that's still true for the Smart Meters - at least the ones with the remote disconnect switch built-in. Easy-on/easy-off, sooner-rather-than-later is one of the selling points of these switches. The sequence and timing of these events may be more of a regulatory or policy issue rather than a technical one, though.
As far as rolling blackouts go, we've never experienced that here, AFAIK. But what has happened, at least two or three times that I can remember, is that on really hot, sunny days one or more of the local transformers has overloaded, gotten too hot, and exploded, taking out a whole block or two of homes with it. Which means a multiple truck roll, with no electricity for several hours on some of the very hottest days. All told, I think I'd rather go with the rolling blackouts or load shedding. |
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 UHFAll static, all day, ForeverPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
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| reply to jchambers28
We had "smart" meters 30 years ago where I lived that billed based on time of day usage. They weren't remotely read, but they had a handheld gizmo the plugged into the meter and downloaded the data. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is over this "new" technology. |
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scross
join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
2 edits | reply to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills. I happened to run across the following while looking for something else; this is the first paragraph of a long section of text. So there is even a mode to automatically disconnect you (for up to an hour at a time, apparently, but it may do this multiple times in a row) if your usage gets too high.
9. What is DLP?
DLP is an acronym for “Demand Limiting Period”. A Utility can send a command down through an AMI system to a specific meter telling it to switch from normal operation mode to DLP mode. In that mode, the meter will continuously monitor demand over a fixed interval and will compare it with the programmed “Threshold.” If the measured interval demand exceeds the programmed demand threshold, the meter will open the RD [Remote Disconnect] Switch. This works in both meters, even though the I-210+ is not a “Demand” meter.
Further reading shows that there is also an ECP (“Emergency Conservation Period”) mode, which operates similarly to the above but gives the POCO much more flexibility over how the situation is handled.
»www.dbmss.ca/PDF%20files/I210+_a···AQ_2.pdf |
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Zach 58Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota | reply to jchambers28
The 'A' within the darkened circle indicates the power is on, within the proper range and the meter is connected to the system for which it's programmed. If this icon is blinking, either the voltage is out of range or the meter has a configuration problem.
The other upper case 'A' in your pic is the TOU rate-period indicator. Usually, 'A' indicates the off-peak or base-rate period while B-D indicate a peak-rate period.
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Zach |
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AsherN
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON | reply to Fronkman
said by Fronkman: How does the POCO know that someone isn't on a home ventilator or an oxygen concentrator? What if it is an old person in the South in the Summer? Do you think the POCO really wants that legal liability if they die?
But doesn't the smart metre give the POCO the ability to know where i the house you're having sex? |
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