 Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | reply to Venom1
Re: [MoP] Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained So, in my ninja-pulled boss scenario, what's my spec? I did the fight as resto, but was queued as a DPS.
Now take it the other way. Queue as healer/resto (for quick queue), DPS the fight as feral, "win". What kind of piece do I get?
If resto, fine, that's what you queued as, but I really did want resto pieces, someone just ninja pulled before I could switch. This is probably an uncommon enough scenario that it's not a big deal, but the system will still have to know "you queued as a healer, here's your healing loot". Or "you queued as a DPS, here's your ... uh ... I guess you were a boomkin?" bit.
If feral pieces drop, that's a huge problem for LFR. I can queue as healer all day for insta queues and hope the rest of the healing team carries me to my feral loot. I wouldn't even have to have a resto spec necessarily.
In the current LFR, I don't have that incentive, because I always get healing loot if I queued as healer. I suppose I could DPS instead, but I wouldn't make it a habit because I can't gear my DPS spec while healer queuing. |
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 Venom1
join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA | said by Nick D:So, in my ninja-pulled boss scenario, what's my spec? I did the fight as resto, but was queued as a DPS. resto gear would drop
said by Nick D:Now take it the other way. Queue as healer/resto (for quick queue), DPS the fight as feral, "win". What kind of piece do I get? feral
said by Nick D:If resto, fine, that's what you queued as. If feral pieces drop, that's a huge problem for LFR. I can queue as healer all day for insta queues and hope the rest of the healing team carries me to my feral loot. true. but if all 6 "healers" are specced into their off spec, the raid wipes, no one gets loot. people qq, maybe some bads drop group. HOPEFULLY if 4/6 are spec'd as heals, and heal, and the raid wins, oh well. the boss died, you nor them, are guaranteed loot. and there is no way to ninja loot from anyone else. If you dont win loot, you can use one of your farmed up "Charm of Good Fortune" to maybe get an item, gold/pots at a minimum. Either way, healers will get only "healer" items, DPS will get only "DPS" items, Tanks wil only get "tank" items.
On 1 tankable fights, I would stay spec'd tank if I were the off tank to get a tank item for my Main Spec. Especially if a shield I needed was in the loot table. I have to understand that if I queue as tank with no resonable expectation to actually tank, I will effectively kill the raid and no one will get loot. Maybe I get kicked. Maybe I change specs. It should end up as a self correcting system.
Look at how much more attention is paid on the LFR Madness encounter after a wipe. Healers heal more (or the bottom 3 do). And more dps's follow the mechanics.
Or it goes down the tube and the LFR Asshatery thread gets a lot longer.
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| reply to Venom1
I'm not talking against other players.
I'm referring to if I want tank items, is it going to give me parry shit?
What if there is no "approriate" loot on that boss and I win a roll?
I know it already said too, that you can get dupilicates... which sucks :P but random is random. I just want to be eligible to get an agi ring that's on the table. If blizz decides druid tanks don't get agi items, then i'm sol, correct?
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 ImmerGentlemanPremium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:6
 ·Comcast
| said by Antonica:I know it already said too, that you can get dupilicates... which sucks :P but random is random. I just want to be eligible to get an agi ring that's on the table. If blizz decides druid tanks don't get agi items, then i'm sol, correct?
I haven't tracked the changes to feral tanking all that closely. But I do know they have split the "tanking spec" from the "dps spec" for ferals. You do not have to worry about this particular form of SOL.
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| What about parry items? or other items that other tanks benefit from but I however, do not. |
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Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | reply to Antonica
Parry items will be flagged for tank role, and the strength tank classes. Druids will never get one because the class isn't appropriate. (note: strength pieces with dodge and mastery will ALSO not be winnable by druids. They wouldn't want them anyways).
If there are literally no items you can use, you get gold instead. In Dragon Soul I don't think that's ever the case, but they only have 8 bosses. Ideally its a rare occurrence.
Blizzard is not going to decide that guardian druids do not get agil items, believe me. And don't forget your itemization will be the same as monk tanks (brewmasters), so hell, maybe they'll put in honest-to-god tanking leather, or agil/dodge rings, that only tank role, druid/monk classes can roll on. |
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| So.... will feral tanking druids be flagged tank? Or... will items have multiple roles attached to them? |
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Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | Guardian druids will be flagged tanks. Feral druids will be flagged DPS. They're separate trees in MOP (4 specs).
EDIT: well, role is technically determined based on what you select when you queue for LFR. But it won't have to determine if you're a bear or cat by looking directly at your talent choices and saying "well, he's got Thick Skin, so he's a bear". You're either a guardian or a feral, not both. |
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Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | reply to Venom1
So this means that your "role" is determined entirely by spec (which works now because they fixed the hybrid role problem of the feral tree). What you queue as is only a matchmaking deal.
I still see the whole "queue as healer, play as DPS" problem becoming a pretty big deal. People already do that (because LFR does not need 6 healers for a lot of it).
What they should do is say "you can't win loot if your spec doesn't match your role". That screws the guy in the ninja pull scenario, but that should be rare and there's an easy fix: spec switch before you enter. |
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Venom1
join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA | reply to Antonica
and I was replying specifically to Nick, not to you, but if you spec as a Guardian Druid, you will get Guardian Druid Items. As it will look at your spec and Guardian Druid=/=Prot Paladin, the items on your spec specific loot tables will be different.
So you'd be pissed about getting AGI/mastery items? you can always reforge out of crit/haste to a more "appropriate" stat. or vendor your "garbage".
Here is the talent calculator. It requires that you choose a speciallity as part of the tree. This should undoubtedly play into the "spec" appropriate loot.
If blizzard decides druid tanks dont get agi items then they aren't developing the game that you're playing.
But then again I only have a Texas public school edjamacation, and I'm not a developer for Blizzard actively working on the MoP expantion.
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For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue. |
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Venom1
join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA | reply to Nick D
said by Nick D:I still see the whole "queue as healer, play as DPS" problem becoming a pretty big deal. People already do that (because LFR does not need 6 healers for a lot of it). answered your issue with the last sentence. if you dont need the healers people switch to dps... you win, get a dps item, which is a viable item for your OS. If you want to only gear your MS, stay in your MS.
said by Nick D:What they should do is say "you can't win loot if your spec doesn't match your role". That screws the guy in the ninja pull scenario, but that should be rare and there's an easy fix: spec switch before you enter.
I disagree, because of the above. IF you kill the boss who cares if you had 10 tanks, 3 healears and 12 dps. the boss died. I'd que for all 3 roles, run in and dps on my pally, then we'd wipe and I'd have to choose tank or heals, probably tank cuz there is supposed to be 2 of us, and if I dont play my role we dont progress and i dont get loot.
Once again, I dont plan on doing LFR on my main to get gear. SMH.
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For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue. |
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Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | The idea is to discourage the wipe in the first place by having people do their assigned roles.
They're obviously concerned with the social friction. Why artificially exacerbate it?
If you wanted OS gear, you queue as the OS role and win it the way GC intended. |
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Reviews:
 ·Bell Fibe
| reply to Nick D
I don't see why they would "intend" for you to have to play as a certain spec to roll on a certain spec.
MMOs have a long tradition of of playing one spec and rolling another spec. Or something....
Either way. If I feel like playing cat, and I do it well. I should be allowed to win resto gear if I want if it's just against the house, and not other players in LFR.
Seems like a simple gimme, why make it so strict brah? |
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Nick DPremium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA | No problem with you winning resto gear as feral. I only have a problem with you playing feral when you told the game that you were in this LFR group as resto (e.g. a healer), because the matcher made assumptions based on that.
If the game lets us declare a rolling spec, then hey, great, queue up as DPS but get resto drops while being a feral cat.
But if spec is the only thing determining what you get, what's going to happen is that you're going to have 2 actual healers out of 6, you're going to wipe, and the raid is going to be pissed that a bunch of hybrids queued up as the wrong role just to jump the queue lines. You can kick all the offenders, but you still wiped on an LFR boss, and you can't guarantee it won't happen with the next batch.
The only way I can see to fix that is to only reward loot when spec and role match up. The game can still find a way to declare that "I want gear for my offspec" or something so if you queue as DPS but want resto gear, that can happen. If your queued role and your spec aren't the same, you aren't eligible for any loot. Best of both worlds.
But GC appeared hesitant when people brought up the obvious off-gearing problem, saying they'd have to go to other sources, so I doubt you'll be able to declare winnings against a different spec than you're actually using. |
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Venom1
join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA | reply to Nick D
While this is definately a MoP Loot thread, let us not forget LFR was designed to allow the maximum number of people to see the content/encounters of an expansion. A stop-gap for gear was a wonderful benefit, but not the main goal.
While all of your concerns are valid, it will be a self correcting system. How do we currently keep bads/mis-queues out of the LFD system? Lets let the system work for a while before we say that the trolls will have an unfiltered field day. And maybe it will have a spec lock out similar to the way arena has...
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For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue. |
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