Re: Government says $50 light bulb is cheap and affordable

Author	All Replies
Somnambul33t L33t. Premium join:2002-12-05 Blackwood, NJ	reply to fifty nine Re: Government says $50 light bulb is cheap and affordable "Shared resources"... Let me pay for what i want to use and leave me the hell alone! you have no right to tell me how to live, what to buy, or how far to drive. Supply and demand works EVERY time. It only "doesnt work" when statists prevent it from working. The free market hardly exists in gas prices. It works and is hindranced by governments at every level. When federal and state governments "make" more tax income from a gallon of gasoline than the oil company makes in profit from the same gallon there is a problem. US oil "production" does not mean "oil extracted and refined" in the US, it merely means oil refined in the US. we import crude and refine it. we import a lot. we even import oil from overseas, refine it here, and then ship and sell it back overseas. Domestic oil extracted from Federal lands is down, considerably, over the last 3 years. It is up on state and private lands and in off-shore installations mainly because of this administrations refusal to grant Federal drilling permits. Supply decreased domestically while demand abroad is skyrocketing and we keep chopping off our own knees at home. You can purchase whatever bulb you want for your apartment. that's cool. i'm not willing to spend more than a couple bucks for light bulbs i wont be taking with me. light bulbs arent something i plan to pack when i move, especially when a new apartment/house will come furnished with them. "Actually it's not elitism. It's ensuring that we use a limited resource (energy) more efficiently. A lightbulb that converts only 10% of the input into light energy is obsolete by 2012 standards and should be phased out." You say "actually it's not elitism" and then the next 2 sentences prove the complete opposite! "A lightbulb that converts only 10% of the input into light energy is obsolete by 2012 standards and should be phased out." If i dont want to be efficient, i shouldnt have to be. i will pay more in electricity, gas, water, etc. I dont like paying more for things, but light bulbs arent going to save me any money. i love driving my 18 MPG car, and i enjoy long showers. All to the point that i am willing to pay for them (for now). Natural resources are limited, not shared. I do not own the oil found in the ground nor do i have any stake in it whatsoever. The company that pays to extract, refine, and ship it does until it's pumped into the gas station. then that gas station owns it before pumping it into my car. The oil was not shared since neither you nor i have a financial or labor stake in it's extraction, refinement, or shipment. See the difference between you and i is fundamental: You think you know what's best for everyone and want to force these beliefs on everyone else, even if only indirectly. I want every person to have every option possible available for them to make their own decisions. I believe in liberty. The government banning light bulbs in the name of efficiency is not liberty, it is statism. The Federal government has no business telling me what light bulbs i can buy.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-14 13:37:41 · (locked)
marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO kudos:2	said by Somnambul33t: Natural resources are limited, not shared. I do not own the oil found in the ground nor do i have any stake in it whatsoever. The company that pays to extract, refine, and ship it does until it's pumped into the gas station. Um, actually... you do. The company that pays to extract, refine, and ship it does not own it when it is in the ground. The collective citizens of the United States do (assuming it is in the United States) in most cases, since the vast majority of extraction now involves public mineral estates. It is only once the oil is extracted that it belongs to the company who extracts it (and, this will seem strange, not to the company who pays for the extraction, but actually to the company who physically extracts the oil). If the oil is under private land, assuming an unsevered mineral estate, it belongs to the private land owner (though it can be extracted by an adjacent land owner, as long as they only drill/mine under their own property). -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-14 13:53:55 · (locked)
Spork join:2011-07-13 Methuen, MA	reply to Somnambul33t said by Somnambul33t: See the difference between you and i is fundamental: You think you know what's best for everyone and want to force these beliefs on everyone else, even if only indirectly. I want every person to have every option possible available for them to make their own decisions. I believe in liberty. The government banning light bulbs in the name of efficiency is not liberty, it is statism. The Federal government has no business telling me what light bulbs i can buy. You want to force your beliefs as much as anyone else. You call yours 'liberty' and theirs 'statism' but both are beliefs that are being forced on people in the end. Indirectly everyone falls into the same bucket it's whether you see that or not. -- "Every once in a while, declare peace....it confuses the hell out of your enemies."
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-14 18:12:00 · (locked)
Somnambul33t L33t. Premium join:2002-12-05 Blackwood, NJ	said by Spork: said by Somnambul33t: See the difference between you and i is fundamental: You think you know what's best for everyone and want to force these beliefs on everyone else, even if only indirectly. I want every person to have every option possible available for them to make their own decisions. I believe in liberty. The government banning light bulbs in the name of efficiency is not liberty, it is statism. The Federal government has no business telling me what light bulbs i can buy. You want to force your beliefs as much as anyone else. You call yours 'liberty' and theirs 'statism' but both are beliefs that are being forced on people in the end. Indirectly everyone falls into the same bucket it's whether you see that or not. what belief or laws am i forcing on anyone?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-15 10:18:47 · (locked)
Jack_in_VA Premium join:2007-11-26 Mathews, VA kudos:1	Somnambul33t I wouldn't worry too much about what an anonymous poster says to your posts. Unfortunately there are some on this forum that try to suppress anyone who doesn't agree with them. There was nothing at all wrong with what you said in your posts.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-15 10:28:39 · (locked)

Somnambul33t L33t. Premium join:2002-12-05 Blackwood, NJ	reply to marigolds said by marigolds: said by Somnambul33t: Natural resources are limited, not shared. I do not own the oil found in the ground nor do i have any stake in it whatsoever. The company that pays to extract, refine, and ship it does until it's pumped into the gas station. Um, actually... you do. The company that pays to extract, refine, and ship it does not own it when it is in the ground. The collective citizens of the United States do (assuming it is in the United States) in most cases, since the vast majority of extraction now involves public mineral estates. It is only once the oil is extracted that it belongs to the company who extracts it (and, this will seem strange, not to the company who pays for the extraction, but actually to the company who physically extracts the oil). If the oil is under private land, assuming an unsevered mineral estate, it belongs to the private land owner (though it can be extracted by an adjacent land owner, as long as they only drill/mine under their own property). you are incorrect. you own things either by title or through the labor involved to produce a product or service. before oil companies start pumping oil out of the ground, they have to obtain a permit from a government to lease the land above the drilling site. they are not purchasing an oil field, they are purchasing the right to drill on a piece of land. the state or federal government does not own that oil since they havent extracted it. the land is leased to companies to extract, upon which they own that oil. until then, it is in a neutral state. the act of laboring on the oil is what grants natural ownership over the oil. This was the most basic foundation of Capitalism, espoused by Adam Smith himself, and applies to all natural resources. You can own the land and waterfall that could power a turbine and produce electricity, but you dont own that electricity until to build a plant and pay people to operate it. this is a natural resource, not owned by anyone until they exert the effort, property, and money to produce something out of, in, or with it. our country was founded on this principal.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-15 10:49:27 · (locked)
marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO kudos:2	The minerals, including the oil, are part of the estate of the real property. They are owned by the owner of the land, unless the mineral estate is severed from the land. The lease is a temporary severance of that mineral estate; it is not a right to drill, it is a lease on the mineral estate which inherent confers a right to drill and extract.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-03-15 10:56:02 · (locked)

Technical > Home Improvement > Government says $50 light bulb is cheap and affordable