 imtim83I hate those people so muchPremium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | reply to swintec
Re: [Newsgroups] Newsgroups and DMCA Takedowns said by swintec:said by AndrewW:and ignores DMCA notices?
No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them. Yep otherwise they could get sued or taken down. DMCA is what protects newsgroups from staying afloat. |
|
 Stem BoltAka Smiling BobPremium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2 | reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW: Besides, Astraweb is there any provider that offers over 1200 day retention and ignores DMCA notices?
Like Swintec said, no provider ignores them.
Your best bet is other then Astraweb, is a Readnews reseller. A reseller like Usenetnow.net / Blocknews.net. Readnews generally has better completion. Not saying they don't get DMCA, just that they don't appear to be nearly as heavily hit as many other providers.
Also, the Dutch providers might be another option. They also appear to not be as heavily hit by DMCA. |
|
imtim83I hate those people so muchPremium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | reply to AndrewW
I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.  |
|
AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to swintec
said by swintec:No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.
So a European Usenet provider operating in and serving its domestic market cannot ignore DMCA notices. I take it that this is because of some reason other then being subject to US law? |
|
AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to imtim83
said by imtim83:I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.
How would that help? Unless I misunderstood Swintec, all Usenet providers including those overseas cannot ignore DMCA notices. |
|
|
|
Stem BoltAka Smiling BobPremium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2 | said by AndrewW:said by imtim83:I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.
How would that help? Unless I misunderstood Swintec, all Usenet providers including those overseas cannot ignore DMCA notices. I'm only speculating but if an European usenet provider doesn't have a physical presence here in North America (servers, offices, ect.) then it's more difficult to "threaten" them with DMCA. There are no servers to confiscate. No offices to "raid". No assets that can be frozen, ect. Notices can be sent to Amsterdam but if they don't comply and remove stuff, what then? The DMCA groups are not a law enforcement entity (police).
Who are they going to call? Interpol? |
|
AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | Exactly, that's what I think as well. My understanding is that the EU has a Copyright Directive, but that's a directive only. Each of their member countries have to pass legislation within their respective countries to implement it. I don't see how the DMCA notice would bother any EU Usenet provider. It certainly wouldn't carry the force of law in any EU country. |
|
 swintecPremium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:4
 ·RapidVPS
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
 ·VoicePulse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:said by swintec:No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.
So a European Usenet provider operating in and serving its domestic market cannot ignore DMCA notices. I take it that this is because of some reason other then being subject to US law? Well..I meant US based providers. But, look at it this way...the largest usenet provider in the world who was based solely in europe, was taken offline last year by court order. The other providers over there were and are crapping there pants over that ruling as no one knows where it is going to go from there. DMCA removals to me are the preferred method, I'm sure others agree. The grass isn't always greener.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts |
|
AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | said by swintec:Well..I meant US based providers. But, look at it this way...the largest usenet provider in the world who was based solely in europe, was taken offline last year by court order. The other providers over there were and are crapping there pants over that ruling as no one knows where it is going to go from there. DMCA removals to me are the preferred method, I'm sure others agree. The grass isn't always greener.
I assume you are referring to the BREIN vs NSE case where the district court of Amsterdam ruled last September that the notice and takedown procedure was inadequate because it would still leave the Usenet provider with a small retention window within which substantial damage to the copyright holder could still take place. Now that's the Netherlands and the authority of that court ends at the Dutch border. So if they're crapping their pants in the Netherlands it doesn't mean they need to be crapping their pants in all the 27 countries that constitute the EU or the 50 countries within Europe. Each country has its own version of copyright law, what constitutes copyright infringement, and judicial interpretation.
How can DMCA removals be the preferred method as they decimate the servers of Usenet providers of any and all content worth having? |
|
swintecPremium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:4 Reviews:
·RapidVPS
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·VoicePulse
·RoadRunner Cable
| Amsterdam (netherlands) is very rich in connectivity which is why you see the majority of Usenet servers there, fast, "cheap", great peering, etc.
said by AndrewW:How can DMCA removals be the preferred method as they decimate the servers of Usenet providers of any and all content worth having?
In this big rat race, I would rather have DMCA than no servers at all. Lots of discussion still goes on. Sucks we have gotten to this point, but I am not sure what the solution is. Get rid of NZB Indexers that make things easy? Make a Usenet Island in the middle of the Pacific where everything runs? I dunno...
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts |
|
AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | said by swintec:Amsterdam (netherlands) is very rich in connectivity which is why you see the majority of Usenet servers there, fast, "cheap", great peering, etc.
Yes, Amsterdam is rich in connectivity but by the actions of the district court of Amsterdam, it has erected a virtual curtain across its portion of the global digital highway thus removing itself from the digital highway on which the free flow of uncensored and unfiltered information so critically dependant. We cannot allow some district court in some small country to act as a global censor of information.
said by swintec:In this big rat race, I would rather have DMCA than no servers at all. Lots of discussion still goes on. Sucks we have gotten to this point, but I am not sure what the solution is. Get rid of NZB Indexers that make things easy? Make a Usenet Island in the middle of the Pacific where everything runs? I dunno...
Having DMCA greatly diminishes the value of Usenet given that this effectively reduces the retention window to about 3 days much like Giganews has exhibited on some releases lately. It makes Usenet's long-term viability questionable and really enhances the case for p2p/vpn.
How would getting rid of NZB indexers relieve the US Usenet providers of having to comply with a DMCA notice? All it would do is make Usenet relevant only for an ever diminishing few and greatly expedite the ultimate demise of Usenet.
I think picking a relatively poor country where the protection of IP rights ranges from minimal to nonexistent and copyright protection is mostly seen as a transfer of wealth from poor countries to the rich ones, would be an ideal location for placing a Usenet server farm. |
|
swintecPremium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:4 Reviews:
·RapidVPS
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·VoicePulse
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by AndrewW:How would getting rid of NZB indexers relieve the US Usenet providers of having to comply with a DMCA notice? All it would do is make Usenet relevant only for an ever diminishing few and greatly expedite the ultimate demise of Usenet. If I am looking for my copyrighted works I go to the super easy search tools of indexers and NZB forums, grab the NZB, do a few copy and pastes of the message IDs and fire off the complaint.
You know as well as I do, dealing with headers is enough to make your head spin. The time and resources to search out ones intellectual property, if it even exists at all, would not be efficient.
Maybe an obscure naming convention for headers? I do not know really.
said by AndrewW:I think picking a relatively poor country where the protection of IP rights ranges from minimal to nonexistent and copyright protection is mostly seen as a transfer of wealth from poor countries to the rich ones, would be an ideal location for placing a Usenet server farm. What country do you have in mind? Which poor country is going to have gigabits and gigabits of decent connectivity to the rest of the world? What poor country has half decent facilities so the servers / data center have an uptime of 99.999%? All without astronomical pricing because users want $5 a month unlimited accounts so they can saturate there 100 MBit internet connection with 3 connections.
I get what you are saying though. Problem is, with what it takes to run a system, resource and cash wise, in an industrialized , modern nation I can only imagine what it would be if you plunked things down in a "poor" country where many of the citizens may not even have internet or power access.
I do agree something needs to happen though. Users may need to realize that it will either come at the expense of pricing or ease of use and access.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts |
|
