AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | [Newsgroups] Newsgroups and DMCA Takedowns I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a comprehensive list of Usenet providers who do not do DMCA takedowns? The reviews I read never seem to include this aspect. With so many people fleeing GN because of this, I believe it has become the deciding issue for many including myself. |
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 goober22Resident Duh-Huh Member
join:2001-12-28
Panama City, FL
kudos:1 | My little input - Astraweb seems to NOT do the DCMA takedowns. Any Highwinds system or reseller DOES do them.
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Certified Jenius! |
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Bark
join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO | reply to AndrewW
I recently encountered an 800 day old post (PC game) that was either removed or expired from every news server in the world, including Astraweb. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to goober22
said by goober22:My little input - Astraweb seems to NOT do the DCMA takedowns. Any Highwinds system or reseller DOES do them.
I've been with a Highwinds reseller (Newshosting) for the last few months and its been so so. It's had some major misses which I have filled with another provider. No where near as bad as GN given the comments by users of Nzbmatrix where GN is reported to be taking some stuff down within minutes of being posted. Its as if some SOPA agent is working inside GN. Still I feel there is no point in sticking with Highwinds if they do any takedowns and I'm looking for another provider. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to Bark
said by Bark:I recently encountered an 800 day old post (PC game) that was either removed or expired from every news server in the world, including Astraweb.
How were you able to establish that? |
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| Keep in mind that the USENET protocol includes a cancel command which will delete posts from every server worldwide. |
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Bark
join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO | reply to AndrewW
There are only a few providers that have more than 800 days, and the post was missing from all of them. In Astraweb's case, the files were replaced with "DMCA'd" messages. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to aannoonn
said by aannoonn :Keep in mind that the USENET protocol includes a cancel command which will delete posts from every server worldwide.
When and by who is this cancel command used? I've been able to download stuff from Newshosting well after its been deleted by GN. I'm also able to download stuff from a European provider months after its gone missing from GN and Highwinds. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to aannoonn
The Usenet Wiki has the following to say about the cancel command.
“Removal of copyrighted content from the entire Usenet network is a nearly impossible task, due to the rapid propagation between servers and the retention done by each server. Petitioning a Usenet provider for removal only removes it from that one server's retention cache, but not any others. It is possible for a special post cancellation message to be distributed to remove it from all servers, but many providers ignore cancel messages by standard policy, because they can be easily falsified and submitted by anyone. For a takedown petition to be most effective across the whole network, it would have to be issued to the origin server to which the content has been posted, but has not yet been propagated to other servers. Removal of the content at this early stage would prevent further propagation, but with modern high speed links, content can be propagated as fast as it arrives, allowing no time for content review and takedown issuance by copyright holders.”
So I need to amend my initial question by requesting a list of Usenet providers who ignore DMCA takedown notices and cancel commands. |
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Bark
join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO | reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:...comments by users of Nzbmatrix where GN is reported to be taking some stuff down within minutes of being posted. I think someone was just guessing about that because I haven't seen it happening.
IM or eMail to me the Nzbmatrix post ID # of something that has comments about being quickly removed and we shall see. Or start a topic on their forums without breaking the rules for discussing what you are downloading. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | Hi Bark,
Check your PM.
Andrew |
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Bark
join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO | It looks like Giganews is simply rejecting the non-standard Message-ID's in some posts. Both posts in your IM have them; two sets of square brackets in the right half of the msg-id and technically that's not NNTP protocol. Nothing to do with DMCA, Giganews is being strict about accepting properly formatted articles. I'll ask the Giganews CTO about it. |
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 swintecPremium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:4
 ·RapidVPS
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
 ·VoicePulse
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:So I need to amend my initial question by requesting a list of Usenet providers who ignore DMCA takedown notices and cancel commands.
Cancel commands are really a non-issue to be honest. DMCA can affect any provider at any given time and none want to get the reputation that they "ignore" them. They may not get many or any, but as public discussions continue about them ignoring them...this information moves up the chain and does not go unnoticed.
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Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts |
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 kingdome74Emotionally UnavailablePremium
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY
kudos:2
 ·Verizon FiOS
·RoadRunner Cable
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Here's how I ended working my way through the take downs - I have an unlimited account from Newshosting, a block account from Blocknews, and a three-month, speed limited (10Mbps) $20 account from Astraweb. Generally speaking I can get most everything. |
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Just have Astra and XSUsenet and I have been getting everything I want. Don't have a block account but I guess I have been fortunate to not need one. |
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DMCA compliance is a regulatory requirement for the services to operate in the USA. Infringing content is required to be removed by the common carrier service provider after notice is given. Some of the providers seem to attract more notices than others, but all of the big usenet providers comply with DMCA notices. You could perhaps try a European provider who exclusively operates servers and its business in Europe but I suspect due to datacenter terms and conditions and similar laws in the EU you would find most if not all providers comply with notices once received. |
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Reviews:
·Shaw
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I've been finding alot of older stuff is missing with astraweb. Astraweb seems to be slow in responding to DMCA notices. So anything posted recently on astraweb is ok, but alot of older posts have the issues.
All they really do is remove some of the posts so the file doesn't work. I think most usenet providers follow dmca notices now. Since they only take down parts of the file, get a fill server.
Most people download recent stuff anyways, but it'll come handy if you need to download something old. Blocknews is another block service if you use astraweb as your main provider. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to Bark
said by Bark:It looks like Giganews is simply rejecting the non-standard Message-ID's in some posts. Both posts in your IM have them; two sets of square brackets in the right half of the msg-id and technically that's not NNTP protocol. Nothing to do with DMCA, Giganews is being strict about accepting properly formatted articles. I'll ask the Giganews CTO about it.
That would make sense. I couldn't see how a DMCA request would work so fast. Nonetheless its only GN users who are complaining about these missing files. One would think that the premium newsgroup provider would bend over backwards to ensure that important content remain on their servers as it remained on every other Usenet provider's, rather then cause tremendous grief amongst its users, motivating them to leave with at least two claiming they were sundering 5 year relationships with GN. What's amazing to me is that GN users, including myself at one point, would laugh at Astraweb users about their seeming incessant whining about incompletes encouraging them to get a real Usenet provider. Now its the GN users doing the whining and switching to Astraweb, which I may add never ended up working for me.
All the major releases associated with the nzbs I sent you (some 20,000 nzbs in total downloaded from Nzbmatrix alone) were deleted by GN within 3 days of the nzbs being released making a mockery of their claimed retention and causing even more users to abandon their service. These I assume were DMCA takedowns. Apparently GN's new motto is “If you snooze, you lose with Giganews”. |
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| reply to zod5000
I havent had problems with real old articles with Astra but they do have issues with articles around the 300 day range. If you get something from that range, it won't complete. It isn't a DMCA issue, it is some technical foul up they had back some months ago and never resolved. |
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AndrewW
join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | reply to swintec
said by swintec:said by AndrewW:So I need to amend my initial question by requesting a list of Usenet providers who ignore DMCA takedown notices and cancel commands.
Cancel commands are really a non-issue to be honest. DMCA can affect any provider at any given time and none want to get the reputation that they "ignore" them. They may not get many or any, but as public discussions continue about them ignoring them...this information moves up the chain and does not go unnoticed. I didn't think it was an issue as well but the anonymous poster suggested it was. However the question then would be who is at the head of this chain and are there any providers who ignore or cannot be touched by this chain in any substantial fashion? |
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