 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | reply to Oh_No
Re: It will be an easy, but expensive win for Aereo said by Oh_No:There is no law or copyright law that says a company cannot lease an antenna with a long cord to someone.
Aereo is not "broadcast" or even "rebroadcasting". They just lease equipment so the end user can watch OTA TV.
It is 1 antenna leased to 1 customer.
Cable TV has to pay for "rebroadcasting" since they have only 1 antenna and rebroadcast it to multiple customers, they also get to inject advertisements on the OTA channels.
You have no idea about the law involved and are wrong, no matter how many times you keep repeating it. And Aereo is a fraud with their phony so-called tiny antennas with one for each customer. It would never work that way and is merely some joke of a legal tactic to try and beat settled copyright law.
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| And you're no lawyer either. Just because you don't like it or think it's a legitimate business, does not mean you are correct. You can say you are right as many times as you want, but that does not change the validity of your statements.
PS - If you were a lawyer, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be spending so much time commenting on DSLR.  |
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
2 edits | said by Rambo76098:And you're no lawyer either. Just because you don't like it or think it's a legitimate business, does not mean you are correct. You can say you are right as many times as you want, but that does not change the validity of your statements.
PS - If you were a lawyer, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be spending so much time commenting on DSLR.
I'm retired and have been for 12 yrs. And I am not a lawyer, but did lead a software development team for my company in collaboration with West Virginia Univ graduate students to manage an IBM Mainframe based network. The tools we developed were to be used to plug-in to IBM's Netview net mgt suite. As part of that effort I spent way too much time with our legal staff on copyright & patent issues - much more than I liked. So, while no expert, I am very familiar with the area.
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The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/2012-election/
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 Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | If you were a lawyer you would be agreeing with me.
There are 3 specific things going on here and only one of them has to be deemed illegal for you to be right.
1. An end user watching OTA broadcasts on their TV
2. An end users leasing an antenna and equipment from a company to connect to their TV
3. An end user connecting their leased antenna to a device like another tv, computer, or phone over a long cord for their for private personal viewing only.
Please tell me how any of those are illegal????
Oh, wait you cant.
1. Is legal or no one can watch OTA tv
2. Is legal or you could not rent or lease anything that shows anything copyrighted, you would have to buy it out right.
3. Copyright law would have to set a limit on the distance you can be from your antenna to make this illegal. Right now this does not exist.
For Aereo to be illegal they have to change the law, this change would also then make slingboxes illegal |
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| Don't argue with this Oh_No guy, no matter how much fact and reality you bring to the table, and hold up in front of him, he will keep repeating his contentions over and over. I went through this on the last Aereo thread. He is like the song from the Music Man about Iowans. "And we're so by God stubborn / We could stand touchin' noses / For a week at a time / And never see eye-to-eye"
But... despite my warning to you.... here goes.
Your first three cases are all legal to do without obtaining a separate license in that they have not been ruled illegal. Case 1 is basic reception of a broadcast signal by a TV. Case 2 is CATV, where there's one big antenna and everyone connects to it. Case 3 is SlingBox, where an end user place-shifts the feed over the Internet.
Important to note that case 2 is NOT today's Cable TV, which DOES have to license the stream. Why? Because they capture and rebroadcast the stream in a different form for the end user, as a paid service. It's not just a straight delivery of the received signal to the TV.
Important to note that case 3 is NOT Aereo. Why? Because Aereo captures and rebroadcasts the stream in a different form for the end user, as a paid service. Why is this not Slingbox? Those magic words: "paid service". SlingBox is NOT a paid service, it is a hardware device that the end user purchases and owns and operates ON HIS/HER OWN.
So get this straight Oh_No: an end user can placeshift (SlingBox) or timeshift (DVR) a broadcast, on their own, using their own hardware. That's legal and allowed under the standard license. But if a COMPANY offers a PAID SERVICE doing placeshifting or timeshifting FOR THE END USER, that is NOT legal and is a copyright violation, unless of course they've acquired the required licenses from the owners.
Hey, this may change sometime, but that's the way it is, and has been held by the courts for many moons now. |
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Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | Case 3 is Aereo.
'broadcasting' is to multiple people which aereo does not do.
They lease you the antenna and tuner and dvr that you connect your viewing device to with a long cord for private viewing only. Aereo 'broadcasts' nothing.
If you want to call it 'retransmission' then a OTA tuner box I connect to my TV does the exact same 'retransmission' when I connect it to my analog tv - it even changes the format of the digital video signal and sends it over a cord to my analog tv.
So you are saying it is illegal to lease a antenna, tuner, dvr, or any other media equipment to a customer for their singular private only viewing??
No court has upheld this. I went over this in another topic and linked to the zediva dvd service injuction. Companies run out of money and settle. There has been no court ruling saying leasing equipment with a long cord is illegal yet.
This is why Aereo is doing what they are doing. It is not illegal by ANY court ruling or any current law. |
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Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | reply to Linklist
said by Linklist:said by Rambo76098:And you're no lawyer either. Just because you don't like it or think it's a legitimate business, does not mean you are correct. You can say you are right as many times as you want, but that does not change the validity of your statements.
PS - If you were a lawyer, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be spending so much time commenting on DSLR.
I'm retired and have been for 12 yrs. And I am not a lawyer, but did lead a software development team for my company in collaboration with West Virginia Univ graduate students to manage an IBM Mainframe based network. The tools we developed were to be used to plug-in to IBM's Netview net mgt suite. As part of that effort I spent way too much time with our legal staff on copyright & patent issues - much more than I liked. So, while no expert, I am very familiar with the area. Now I get it. You are like a retired 80 year old that does not understand technology to be able to make sense when trying to discuss something.
You are out of your element here. I cant really blame you for not understanding new technology, but you should not post about what you dont understand. |
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by Oh_No:Now I get it. You are like a retired 80 year old that does not understand technology to be able to make sense when trying to discuss something.
You are out of your element here. I cant really blame you for not understanding new technology, but you should not post about what you dont understand.
Always with the insults, huh? And I am not 80. I retired at age 50 & with tons of money. And I learned more about technology while programming in machine language; developing network products well in to the router and switch age; managing data & telecom departments; than you will ever learn no matter how old you get.
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The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/2012-election/
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said by MyDogHsFleas:Don't argue with this Oh_No guy, no matter how much fact and reality you bring to the table, and hold up in front of him, he will keep repeating his contentions over and over.
So, in other words, he's just like you? |
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Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | reply to Linklist
I did not insult you. I just understand that you are pre 2000 in your working technology and did not grow up with the technology we use today.
You thinking about aereo in antiquated terms that do not apply today. I broke down the 3 issues here and neither of them are against the law.
If you really know the industry you would know there has never been a ruling deeming the leasing setup aereo doing illegal. No copyright law limits the lenght of your cord or how you lease equipment from someone. |
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Oh_NoTrogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:Don't argue with this Oh_No guy, no matter how much fact and reality you bring to the table, and hold up in front of him, he will keep repeating his contentions over and over. I went through this on the last Aereo thread. He is like the song from the Music Man about Iowans. "And we're so by God stubborn / We could stand touchin' noses / For a week at a time / And never see eye-to-eye"
But... despite my warning to you.... here goes.
Funny you admit I am right, but then try to say what Aereo is doing is different than what I am talking about.
Its like you are just trying to find ways to argue.
said by MyDogHsFleas:Your first three cases are all legal to do without obtaining a separate license in that they have not been ruled illegal. Case 1 is basic reception of a broadcast signal by a TV. Case 2 is CATV, where there's one big antenna and everyone connects to it. Case 3 is SlingBox, where an end user place-shifts the feed over the Internet.
If all of those are legal then Aereo is legal except case 2 you have that wrong. Aereo leases individual antennas/no broadcasting.
Leasing one antenna to multiple people 'could' be viewed/argued as rebroadcasting but again there is no law for this yet. |
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 TomekPremium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY | reply to Linklist
Re: It will be an easy, but expensive win for Aereo I think you didn't look into much detail of how infrastructure is build.
Each customer get's their OWN antenna. and they are individually fed to servers which individually process the streams. I seen their datacenter, it is HUGE. To do what you say they would require them to have 1/10 of the hardware as they would "share" among subscribers.
I seen similar method used in different countries, where international re-broadcasing was illegal. So that company set up on-site receivers either via coax or satellite and then had converters to IPTV. So customer was paying for subscription in foreign country plus delivery mechanism.
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by Tomek:Each customer get's their OWN antenna. and they are individually fed to servers which individually process the streams. .
Did you read where each antenna is 1/4 of an inch. Do you REALLY believe each 1/4" antenna is going to pick up all the OTA broadcasts in the area? These tiny antennas are a fraud and the OTA broadcasts would be picked up by conventional antennas or by aggregating all the tiny antennas together to get the signals. If either method is used, then the claim that each user has their own personal antenna is a massive lie and is a legal fiction to get around copyright law.
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The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/2012-election/
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wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | said by Linklist:Did you read where each antenna is 1/4 of an inch. Do you REALLY believe each 1/4" antenna is going to pick up all the OTA broadcasts in the area? These tiny antennas are a fraud and the OTA broadcasts would be picked up by conventional antennas or by aggregating all the tiny antennas together to get the signals. If either method is used, then the claim that each user has their own personal antenna is a massive lie and is a legal fiction to get around copyright law.
Sooo..... maybe just go look for yourself instead of assuming? Plenty of people throughout the ages of man have said, "That's just not possible.", and have been dead wrong. |
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I just used an online antenna calculator, and for UHF TV stations, it would require antennae between 2 31/32in. and 1 19/32in. to cover the approximate UHF broadcasting range of 470 MHz to 890 MHz, at least for 1/8 wavelength antennae (the smallest the calculator would do).
I'm not very learned on radio transmission, but they would need something around 1/32 wavelength to get down to 1/4 in. antennae. If that would still pick up a signal, they could just have the antennae very close to the source transmission so that they would not require very much gain. |
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TomekPremium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY | reply to Linklist
said by Linklist:said by Tomek:Each customer get's their OWN antenna. and they are individually fed to servers which individually process the streams. .
Did you read where each antenna is 1/4 of an inch. Do you REALLY believe each 1/4" antenna is going to pick up all the OTA broadcasts in the area? These tiny antennas are a fraud and the OTA broadcasts would be picked up by conventional antennas or by aggregating all the tiny antennas together to get the signals. If either method is used, then the claim that each user has their own personal antenna is a massive lie and is a legal fiction to get around copyright law. I seen in person, I been in that datacenter. They choose location in brooklyn with large windows facing Empire State building. They have direct line of sight to the emitters. So what makes you think that you need crazy antenna to pick it up? Do you have electrical engineering degree to back it what you THINK? Location, location, location.
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| reply to Tomek
said by Tomek:I think you didn't look into much detail of how infrastructure is build.
Each customer get's their OWN antenna. and they are individually fed to servers which individually process the streams. I seen their datacenter, it is HUGE. To do what you say they would require them to have 1/10 of the hardware as they would "share" among subscribers.
I seen similar method used in different countries, where international re-broadcasing was illegal. So that company set up on-site receivers either via coax or satellite and then had converters to IPTV. So customer was paying for subscription in foreign country plus delivery mechanism.
Interesting. When you say "servers which individually process the streams..." are the servers themselves shared and multitasking among the users? What about the networking and storage, how shared are they?
I don't know if it would really make a difference, they are still going one step beyond SlingBox. Slingbox is a one time purchase that allows users to literally own the gear to placeshift using their own network infrastructure in their home. Aereo is a service-for-fee that interposes Aereo-owned hardware between the end user and the broadcast station. Slingbox legal, Aereo very doubtful. IMO.
But, you have brought some interesting facts to the discussion and I would like to hear more!!! |
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wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | If place shifting is an acceptable practice, then we are talking symantics about paying for a device versus paying for a service. The function is the same, as long as the company can guarantee that customers do not get channels which they are not supposed to get. But that's why they feel it is justified enough to go to court over. |
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