Reviews:
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to daveinpoway
Re: How U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work John Naisbitt, who ran a company that tracked trends of what countries were doing by reading their newspapers and magazines. His book, "Megatrends 2000", said manufacturing would leave the US and everything would be a global manufacturing process and the US would become the designer/creator/thinker/innovator/developer of those products. |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | reply to howardfine
quote:
“We shouldn’t be criticized for using Chinese workers,” a current Apple executive said. “The U.S. has stopped producing people with the skills we need.”
This is not a problem Apple caused, but this quote is basically a self fulfilling prophesy.
Over the past few decades, multinationals based in the US have have slowly but surely made it so that young people in the country don't want these skills. Why would you take time and money learning a skill that you can't be employed for? If there was a demand for these jobs in the US the skilled workforce would arise. |
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steven sPremium
join:2002-09-14
Dearborn, MI Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to Rob
said by Rob:said by Snakeoil:LOL, The excuses used by the "Apple" execs are a crock. I worked at an electronics manufacturing plant in Ohio. There were times where we ended up working 12 hour shifts, 5 days a week. Then we'd come in on saturday and sunday for an extra 8 hours. All to get an order done and shipped.
And you expected time and a half for those 8 hours, yes? The Chinese expect time and a half for hours past 8 too, Apple's suppliers just don't have to obey local Chinese law because money speaks. |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | reply to howardfine
said by howardfine:John Naisbitt, who ran a company that tracked trends of what countries were doing by reading their newspapers and magazines. His book, "Megatrends 2000", said manufacturing would leave the US and everything would be a global manufacturing process and the US would become the designer/creator/thinker/innovator/developer of those products.
Good luck with that. R&D centers are already being placed in India and China so they can be close to the manufacturing centers. |
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steven sPremium
join:2002-09-14
Dearborn, MI Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to howardfine
said by howardfine:said by Rob:Which bugs me, because there's clear evidence of labor violations in the factories in China that Apple employs, and I feel they are turning a blind idea in the name of profits.
Apple is not the only company that complex manufactures for. It is only one of a many large corps that go there, including Microsoft. This is a great example of how outsourcing allows companies to evade their responsibilities to your workers. |
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| reply to Snakeoil
But you got overtime, in China they just get Tea and biscuit.
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| reply to mozerd
said by mozerd:IMO, manufacturing can return to North America based on manufacturing ingenuity that can overcome the valid health issues regulations try to deal with -- but regulation is not the answer -- ingenuity and the will to do it [financial incentives] is the answer. Unfortunately far to many socialists [communists/labour unions] have far to much influence in North America. I know, I know, forcing employers to offer safe working conditions, health coverage, workers comp, FMLA, and other things we take for granted is just so wrong. We should go back and start treating people like the commodity they are, you know, like in that book, The Jungle or at any Foxxconn factory.
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| reply to Teasip
I already do frequently, unless there are no viable alternatives.
Just bought mushkin RAM which is at least assembled in Ohio.
The reason I bought it was for a new HTPC build, I could have picked up a Foxconn prebuilt model for considerably less, but I've been dodging them as best I can for several years.
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| reply to Rob
But, we like our Hyundai (US Made with Korean and US Parts)? Yes, the dashboard is plastic, but so are the foreign made cars now. I know my sisters GM (Canadian with Mexican and US parts) fell apart at 80K miles. My Honda was built in Japan though, but my grandmothers Ford was built in Mexico. But Honda has moved jobs to the US whereas Ford and GM have outsourced.
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| reply to lordpuffer
Local county and state incentives are provided, sometime considerable. The problem is that frequently the companies fail to live up the promises that they make in order to get those breaks. As for Federal incentives...do any of the major corps still pay tax?
»www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/···rsPR.pdf
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jfmezeiPremium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:22 | reply to daveinpoway
In the "Book of Jobs", Steve Jobs used to showcase the automated Apple assembly plants raunned by robots painted in Steve's Jobs' choice of colours.
I find it interesting that at the end of the day, they chose to have all the iToys assembled by hand in china instead of automated plants in the USA. |
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 FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor awayPremium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO | reply to xrobertcmx
said by xrobertcmx: As for Federal incentives...do any of the major corps still pay tax?
ha! the vast majority of the fortune 500 not only doesn't pay tax but actually gets big checks from the government every year.
looking at the whole thing from a macroeconomic/historic perspective, chinese labor is not really that far off base from what has been happening since the start of the industrial revolution. england was cheap later for continental europe, the US was cheap labor for europe, asia is currently cheap labor for the US and europe...
this cycle will continue. the standard of living is rising (though somewhat imperceptibly) in china and eventually communism will fall. where will the next cheap labor source come from? there are a number of other asian countries but most economists agree that africa is wide open.
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Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks! |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | reply to daveinpoway
Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.
2010/11 numbers aren't readily available last I checked, but as of 2009 the US was still the largest manufacturer in the world. If it stood alone it would be the 8th largest economy in the world. China is catching up of course, and may pass us soon. With 4x the population this isn't hard believe.
»shopfloor.org/2011/03/u-s-manufa···st/18756
The philosophy behind corporate tax rates is a bit thick for this topic. 
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I love the Green Bay Packers.
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scross
join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN | reply to daveinpoway
A couple of things:
1. Foxconn has announced that they plan to install 1,000,000+ robots over the next three years, most of which will displace their current workforce. So much for cheap labor costs then, huh? (One could take this opportunity to point out that factories with said robots could be located anywhere on the planet - even in the good old USA!)
2. China's economy has already started a slow-motion collapse, as has been predicted for some time now. It remains to be seen how well the Chinese government will be able to manage this - will there be a soft landing or a hard crash? If things get ugly then I expect a Chinese war of some type (civil, border issues, disputes over territorial waters, etc) may become all but inevitable. |
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Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Zoder
said by Zoder:said by howardfine:John Naisbitt, who ran a company that tracked trends of what countries were doing by reading their newspapers and magazines. His book, "Megatrends 2000", said manufacturing would leave the US and everything would be a global manufacturing process and the US would become the designer/creator/thinker/innovator/developer of those products.
Good luck with that. R&D centers are already being placed in India and China so they can be close to the manufacturing centers. Um. Starting to do something 12 years later does not make the trend wrong. And, what he wrote about, was a trend, not a prediction.
Also, why does R&D have to be near manufacturing? And IF such a thing is happening, it doesn't mean it's happening with all of them, and I'd venture to say it isn't happening much at all. In fact, I'm fully aware of companies that have regretted doing such a thing and have pulled out of India. |
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| reply to Fronkman
Exactly the point I was going to make! |
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 SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature.Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to xrobertcmx
That isn't my problem. Maybe the unions should take their glorious cause world wide and demand an international wage/work place standard. so that you go get a job in china, you'll get paid what a person in the US would make. Meaning no matter where you go, you get the same pay for the same job. Also sick days and paid vacation, with paid holidays. And a 5 day work week.
I strongly doubt something like that would become a standard, but it would level the playing field, and stop the abuse of 3rd world work forces.
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Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?. |
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| I am a bit lost on what you are aiming at here?
Losing all of the the minor comforts we take for granted, and have been steadily losing for the last ten years would be your problem if you are an American worked.
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SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature.Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·magicjack.com
| I'll try restating it:
The glorious American unions, the guys that say they have the workers best interest at heart, and are all about the worker [maybe 50 years ago, but not today], should take their "act" to the international stage. They [the unions], should try to push for a international [world wide] wage [pay], and work safety standard. As well as a international work place policy of paid vacation, paid holidays, and 5 paid sick days.
How would the American worker be losing any of that, if it became an international enforceable law?
You could work in china, at the same position you currently hold, and make the same wage. Or go to Europe and work the same job, for the same pay.
VS going to China and getting paid less for the same work.
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Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?. |
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 mozerdLight Will Pierce The DarknessPremium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON | very funny.  Working is neither a right or privilege -- working is a responsibility. Wages are governed by market forces not by government mandates. Governments do mandate but dynamic markets force mandates to be ineffective and unsustainable.
Power is the opium of the few -- entitlements is the cocaine of the masses. Equality is the Utopia of the mindless and expertly exploited by the power hungry regardless of political affiliation.
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David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business |
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