2 edits | wanting more specific NIMS parameters This topic has been beaten to death a while back, so I hesitate to reopen it. I'd like to collect some information for the group as to more specific details of the NIMS and how it works if you're "managed"
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Background (Skip this if you don't want to read a story): had a bunch of issues for a few months with inconsistencies, changed modems, been good for several months with stable speeds minimum 2-3mbps down. Starting recently, speeds from speedtests have shown much higher at 6-9mbps again. Yesterday got cut to 0.5mbps down for hours though, tonight to 0.5mbps to 1mbps for ~1-1.5hr (included time calling to clear). I have been using the connection more often this month than previous months, using Netflix decently (28.8GB down and 1.2GB up through yesterday).
I called into phone tech support, first rep was very nice although not extremely knowledgeable. But he did walk through and understand observations and tried first reprovisioning the modem, then said "sometimes they remove and re-add the modem to the account and it fixes strange issues" and he did that too. Then he passed me to the "speed department". Lady that answered started out very curt, asked me the issue and would not let me explain more than five words --- she cut me off starting a scripted speech about "The FCC requires that we, for the good of the customers, manage our very limited wireless bandwith.....". She did get nicer as I continued to be nice to her, and seemed to be sure of answers she gave to some related questions. I don't know how many of her answers were fully true or not. I'm looking on input we can combine info told by operators or otherwise known about the NIMS currently implemented.
It was surprising how open they are about the management now, as compared to early last year when I was one of the first to report the heavy management/inconsistencies here months before they put out reports of their NIMS being implemented, it is at least SOME improvement.
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My own observations:
1. Yesterday, when the NIMS apparently cut in, on my router firmware it showed EXACTLY 30GB of download+upload from June 1-June 22.
2. Both times when NIMS was active, Upload speed tests went up to 1.2-2.5mbps instead of 1.00mbps and pings went higher. The higher upload seems really an odd behavior.
3. While maybe the 8-9PM is peak hour (I'm not sure), all their official releases I thought said there were many buckets where users are managed. It seems strange to me that I'd be in unmanaged buckets for so long then directly to 0.5mbps. I thought the aggressive kinks had been worked out of the system.
Information given by "Speed department" representative:
1. She can see if/when NIMS is active. (Looked up my home modem said it was managed yesterday and today).
2. Said the tower manages the actual usage, less usage for a "week or so" would make it unmanaged again. This conflicts with my observation 1. above.
3. She said the two modems (home and mobile) on the account are handled completely separately, actually suggested I try the mobile modem for some days. I can't do so immediately but will if I see the management again.
4. "Nothing she could do" (I knew this already) Curiously, 2 minutes before the connection was at 1.0mbps for the past hour. Immediately after hanging up with her, it tested 8mbps.
5. I asked her wasn't it strange I'd jump straight from the full speed bucket to the 0.5mbps speed bucket, she said "No, that's how it's supposed to work"
6. Asked about "expected" usage, she surprisingly gave an answer. She said she's seen management with "as little as 4GB"(!) and also none with "as much as 100GB in a week".
7. Asked about business class service, she said they are managed at the same capacity levels.
Questions for input / conflicting information:
A - Are the modems really handled separately? I may try this just have to buy another ubee dock to cannibalize the RF connector to connect to my external antenna.
B - Coincidence that management kicked in at EXACTLY (to the 10MB) 30GB of traffice since June 1 -- she said it's a rolling window and that less use with "no videos, games, etc" for a week would clear it up. Do they really have only rolling caps or do they have some monthly ones too?
C - The topics kind of died down except really inspecific posts about slow speeds in random areas without much info. Has anyone been told they were being managed when they've seen speeds any other than 0.5mbps or 1mbps? Is the previous discussed idea of "speed buckets" back when they were improving some of the NIMS problems incorrect?
D - Business Class service --? really the same capacity levels or given more? |
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Reviews:
 ·Clearwire
| I honestly don't have any in put here, nothing useful anyway. I've never seen hide nor hair of the NIMS Throttle Monster and I know I went over 30GBs of data this month. I don't keep track of it, but I'd be willing to guess I probably went way over and I'm still seeing speeds well over what was promised.
I guess it does provide some information, that the Throttle Monster doesn't seem to have been turned loose in all areas? I live in a small city, population only about 7,000 yet I'm within 5 miles of 7 towers with two of them under a mile from my home. I don't imagine there's an over abundance of congestion? |
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Reviews:
 ·Clear Wireless
| The "throttle monster" will stay in his cave unless you are in an area experiencing congestion (as I understand it). It works at the tower, so if you are in a smaller town then consider yourself lucky and never recommend the service to anyone - or you WILL see him! |
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| I used to work for Clearwire as a Technical Support Level 2 "partner", as they call it. Here's how NIMS works...
As everyone knows, Sandvine provides the modules the restrict the bandwidth. Basically, what happens is whenever a pop begins to reach a utilization limit, current it's 60% maximum utilization, the restriction begins. The system tags MAC IDs that are using the heaviest bandwidth, and then it begins. Those that are using the top 5% are hit the hardest first. It then trickles up the levels.
There's 4 levels of management, and the resulting speeds.
Level 0 - Max 10 Mbps down
Level 1 - Max 2.25 Mbps down
Level 2 - Max 1.25 Mbps down
Level 3 - Max 0.68 Mbps down
The system cycles in real time to determine the level of management. However, if you're on a pop that's ALWAYS over utilized, you're never going to be released from throttling until the bandwidth meter resets on the ODM side of things.
There's no real "magic number". It varies so much for different markets. Some pops only have 2 or 3 T1 back bone lines so they have a much lower thresh hold for management, than other pops.
Anyway, if you have any other questions please reply here, and I'll answer them the best I can  .
PS: F*** Clearwire. |
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hardlyPremium
join:2004-02-10
USA | Thank you for the enlightenment. |
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rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Bright House
| reply to Nacho_Libre
said by Nacho_Libre:There's 4 levels of management, and the resulting speeds.
Level 0 - Max 10 Mbps down
Level 1 - Max 2.25 Mbps down
Level 2 - Max 1.25 Mbps down
Level 3 - Max 0.68 Mbps down
Thanks for the insider view.
What surprises me is the ridiculously large drop between Level 0 and Level 1. The drops from L1 to L2 to L3 are each by half, and IMO that should be the case starting with L0.
L0 - 10 Mbps down
L1 - 5 Mbps down
L2 - 2.5 Mbps down
L3 - 1.25 Mbps down
L4 - 0.625 Mbps down
IMO, that would be a lot more equitable and far less likely to generate user complaints. I see no immediate justification for cutting download speed by nearly 80% in one tier jump. |
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| reply to Nacho_Libre
Is it common as part of the management scheme to reduce base station power to users that have been connected for many days to reduce the number of users connected to a tower? |
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 whfsdudePremium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
·T-Mobile US
| reply to kram1984j
Nacho_Libre,
I noticed on my nearest tower transfers are limited to just under two megabits but this is per IP I am connected to. I can pull 5 or so mbits if I am connected to a number of different IPs.
Speeds are the same 24/7, no matter how much bandwidth I use. It's QoS on the tower but is it done via the rate-limiting usage based system described above? Should I be concerned it's possibly a tower misconfiguration? |
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| reply to rebus9
That's exactly what I've witnessed time and time again.
I don't know why they dump that supposed top 5% in level 3 from the get go though, it would mitigate the lack of proper reset and sampling time for most i imagine if they dumped them in level 1 from the get go and then moved them down or up from there based on tower util.
I'm curious if top 5% get dumped into level3 from the get go what triggers levels 2 and 1? top 10% top 20%? Worse then their flawed implementation (imho) has been the lack of details shared to date regarding it, thanks for providing insight and confirming some things. |
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| If you think that's bad, imagine how bad it sucked for the people on the other end of the phone who up until recently could be fired ON THE SPOT for actually saying that you were managed. That's why you NEVER heard anything other than the script and could never get a rep to flat out say it. |
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