 | Covering cost vs profit I don't see how an item's or a service's actual cost reflects the market price though. With other goods and services thanks to cheap labor overseas they cost very little to make. Yet companies charge a significant sum for them.
Why is that? The answer is profit and shareholders. You can't really fault companies for wanting to make a profit and shareholders for wanting a decent return. It's not always about what's the consumer wants. If the price is too high for something I simply don't buy it. I'm sure if enough people did that the price of a product or service would adjust to where people would be comfortable buying it. |
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 | said by fifty nine:I don't see how an item's or a service's actual cost reflects the market price though. With other goods and services thanks to cheap labor overseas they cost very little to make. Yet companies charge a significant sum for them.
Why is that? The answer is profit and shareholders. You can't really fault companies for wanting to make a profit and shareholders for wanting a decent return. It's not always about what's the consumer wants. If the price is too high for something I simply don't buy it. I'm sure if enough people did that the price of a product or service would adjust to where people would be comfortable buying it. It is NEVER about what the consumer wants when monopoly or collusion conditions exist and governments do not enforce competition conditions in order to benefit customers, as they should. |
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 TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium join:2002-01-25 Gibsonton, FL Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| It is ALWAYS about that even in a "monopoly" situation.
Companies want more accounts not less as there is a chance to do more cross-selling.
Also;
If the government beats down the ISPs it will IMO set you back as potential competitors will not bother to set up shop or even try. |
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 | reply to fifty nine Market economics don't work if you have an addictive product like heroine or if you have a monopoly with regulatory collusion on a product that is rapidly becoming a necessity. You can argue that internet access is a luxury, but with each passing year, in a competitive global economy, immediate access to global information is such a competitive advantage that it really is becoming a necessity. |
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 | So what are you saying? That the internet should be funded by the Gov't and run by Gov't employees (like you?)
Good luck keeping costs under control if that's the case. |
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 | reply to Racket Which private corporation is going to sell internet access at cost? |
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 | reply to fifty nine The difference here is that they're getting government sanction raping of customers. There is no competitive for here. Everyone has caps, so there is no choice for the customer other than do without. |
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 | reply to fifty nine This is true but just as the telephone and the telegraph line before it this i more than just "it's too expensive I don't need it". Internet access has become more of a neccesity than anything else. The reason for going to charing per byte has been the same it's inception, they are trying to cover their arses. They realized too late in the game that there are other services out there cheaper than their own they can get through the internet and they don't want to be a dumbpipe. They fear this more than the anything. |
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 | reply to fifty nine Well, of course, economically speaking there certainly should be profit in even a decently competitive market. No one is suggesting that the price = marginal cost of atomistic competition.
But at $2/GB, and their cost at 3 cents a GB, that's a 98.5 percent profit margin. That is wildly obscene. And even that is downplaying it, as the substantial majority of users won't come close to hitting the 25GB/month cap. So these overages are pure profit.
So it's not financial need. And it's not congestion pricing, or they'd only invoke it during times of actual congestion. It's just pure greed, which is fine, that's capitalism, but in this case the regulator's job is to protect the interests of the entire country, not just a few powerful companies. |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs kudos:1 | reply to Racket said by Racket :Market economics don't work if you have an addictive product like heroine I have to agree with you, women of distinguished courage or ability, admired for their brave deeds and noble qualities are indeed addictive.  -- Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power |
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 TheWiseGuyDog And ButterflyPremium,MVM join:2002-07-04 East Stroudsburg, PA kudos:2 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:I don't see how an item's or a service's actual cost reflects the market price though. With other goods and services thanks to cheap labor overseas they cost very little to make. Yet companies charge a significant sum for them.
Why is that? The answer is profit and shareholders. You can't really fault companies for wanting to make a profit and shareholders for wanting a decent return. It's not always about what's the consumer wants. If the price is too high for something I simply don't buy it. I'm sure if enough people did that the price of a product or service would adjust to where people would be comfortable buying it. Of course in most products there is a lot of competition. Most products (edit: excluding some luxury products where the name/prestige is an added attraction) do not survive for a long time with a high profit margin unless there are major barriers to providing a similar product which keeps competition at bay.
ISPs tend to be at best oligopolies and in some cases monopolies. Even including wireless there is not a great deal of added competition since two of the major wireless carriers are also major landline ISPs. This is due to several reasons but is why in the past they were regulated in the US and I believe are regulated in Canada.(Forgive me if I am wrong since I do not know a lot about ISPs in Canada)
Due to the high fixed cost nature and the legal barriers to entry there tends to be little competition and therefore the companies can set pricing to maximize profit instead of having to charge at the marginal cost of providing service. This is very different then most products and allows for profits that are well beyond what would give a reasonable return on investment. -- Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore. |
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 | reply to fifty nine No, I guess the private corporations should continue operating with government supported anti-competitive behavior. |
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 | reply to TheWiseGuy In many major metropolitan areas you have a choice.
In fact, I live in a rural area and I have three choices:
Cable DSL fixed wireless
I have additional choices: Cellular Satellite commercial broadband options (T1 etc)
In a city you may have several choices: Cable (more than one provider in some cases) DSL wireless telco fiber
The idea that there is no competition really has no basis in reality whatsoever. |
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 P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium join:2001-08-29 way way out Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:I don't see how an item's or a service's actual cost reflects the market price though. With other goods and services thanks to cheap labor overseas they cost very little to make. Yet companies charge a significant sum for them.
Why is that? The answer is profit and shareholders. You can't really fault companies for wanting to make a profit and shareholders for wanting a decent return. It's not always about what's the consumer wants. If the price is too high for something I simply don't buy it. I'm sure if enough people did that the price of a product or service would adjust to where people would be comfortable buying it. would not be a problem if they were not allowed to have near monopolistic powers.
don't have to worry about people going to another company in how many places? prob 80% i would assume --
NO U |
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 P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium join:2001-08-29 way way out Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:Which private corporation is going to sell internet access at cost? there have been many attempts to create local ISP's and govt run ISPs that would be ran at COST...but then the regional ISP sues sues sues sues them --
NO U |
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 | reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:The idea that there is no competition really has no basis in reality whatsoever. It isn't competition when all your alternatives have the same transfer caps and/or charge obscene amounts for overages.
People around here I don't think are averse to paying for broadband. The uproar is the punitive cost which has no basis in reality. Pay five cents for a GB and charge your customer $2? Really? Margins like that would be a businessman's wet dream.  -- "It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes |
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 | reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:In many major metropolitan areas you have a choice.
In fact, I live in a rural area and I have three choices:
Cable DSL fixed wireless
I have additional choices: Cellular Satellite commercial broadband options (T1 etc)
In a city you may have several choices: Cable (more than one provider in some cases) DSL wireless telco fiber
The idea that there is no competition really has no basis in reality whatsoever. In your reality, no. In many people's situation, the situation is a lot more limited. Of course, there are those that consider IP over avian carriers to be an option in their desire to defend monopolistic entities.
»www.faqs.org/rfc/rfc2549.txt |
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 thecp join:2004-07-15 Sacramento, CA | reply to TechieZero What is it with people who can't even do some basic research into monopolies in the past? Rockefeller mean anything? Old PacBell/AT&T? The only reason these companies could have accounts was because it WASN'T a CHOICE for the consumer.
And guess what, they were beaten down by the government. So naturally all of our petroleum supply, railroads, and phone services have all but disappeared right? |
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 LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Longport, NJ kudos:5 | reply to Bill Dollar said by Bill Dollar:the regulator's job is to protect the interests of the entire country, not just a few powerful companies. But with gov't regulation the cure is often worse than the disease. Sure they may hold down prices thru regulation for awhile, but unintended consequences often results in problems often unforseen by the bureaucrats just looking to perpetuate their jobs and who care about little else.
Also, regulatory bureaucrats actually do little to hold down prices over time. They usually become captive to those they regulate anyway when they realize their continued job security depends more on the regulated than on the politicians & the voters(who quickly lose interest, especially with semi-independent agencies). |
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 | reply to fifty nine said by fifty nine:The idea that there is no competition really has no basis in reality whatsoever. You really need to educate yourself with the issues in Canada before ranting nonsense. Under the propose UBB the big 4 would control everything (including the retail pricing of other smaller ISPs) and basically place every small ISP in a death kneel.. |
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