public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | reply to ackovski
Re: Investor needed for Tesla Scooter said by ackovski:said by public:You need a detailed business plan showing costs and projected sales. If you do not know how to write one, pay a consultant to help you out. I doubt there is a consultant that would have an idea of a projected sale. It mostly depends on the commercials and how will the people accept it because it's a new thing. That is what a business plan needs to include. You must explain how much money is needed, what it will be used for, and what the expect ROI is.
Many consultants can do just that. |
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | reply to ackovski
Re: Investor needed for Tesla Scooter! said by ackovski:said by public  Real electric vehicles use regenerative brakes, mechanical brakes are only for emergencies.
[/BQUOTE :Not true. Regenerative braking with these type of batteries is almost useless. Charging current of the nowadays batteries is few amps (about 3A) and the regenerative braking produces almost ten times that. A current that you can not use unless you have some BIG capacitors. When wrong type batteries are used. Delivery stop and go vehicles are the best electric candidates. |
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 Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | reply to public
said by public:said by Anonuser: Only thing he has really been going through are brake pads, as even with lithium, it is a heavy bike, every 4-5k miles or so for pads, original disks. Real electric vehicles use regenerative brakes, mechanical brakes are only for emergencies. Define REAL.... I know of many that do not.
Diesel trains yes, some cars yes.... scooters and bikes generally not, partially because of the expense but also motors small enough to not load enough to totally brake.
One of my electric bikes does generate coasting and some drag but not near enough to actually stop you.
And actually deisel electric locomotives don't rely totally on the generator as drag they actually shunt them in to HUGE resistor packs that just disapate to heat to generate enough load.
Even Hybrid cars that use regen will near bring the car to as near stop... you still need brakes.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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 SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature.Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1 | reply to Hayward
Re: Investor needed Not bad. |
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | reply to Hayward
Re: Investor needed for Tesla Scooter! said by Hayward:said by public:said by Anonuser: Only thing he has really been going through are brake pads, as even with lithium, it is a heavy bike, every 4-5k miles or so for pads, original disks. Real electric vehicles use regenerative brakes, mechanical brakes are only for emergencies. Define REAL.... I know of many that do not. One of my electric bikes does generate coasting and some drag but not near enough to actually stop you. Even Hybrid cars that use regen will near bring the car to as near stop... you still need brakes. Scrap part garage builds may not, but a purpose built vehicle has regeneration breaking as a design requirement. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
1 edit | Point is that braking is a misnomer is is equivalent to a standard transmission downshifted and left in gear to SLOW it does not STOP the vehicle you still need mechanical brakes for that.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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2 edits | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward: Diesel trains yes, some cars yes.... scooters and bikes generally not, partially because of the expense but also motors small enough to not load enough to totally brake. The braking on the AC motor can be pretty strong. You can force the motor go backwards by changing the phases like RST to RTS, braking almost like with real brakes and even stop! Our scooter has a reverse gear... remember?  |
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moes
join:2009-11-15
Indianapolis, IN | Dynamic Braking any one? |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to ackovski
said by ackovski:said by Hayward: Diesel trains yes, some cars yes.... scooters and bikes generally not, partially because of the expense but also motors small enough to not load enough to totally brake. The braking on the AC motor can be pretty strong. You can force the motor go backwards by changing the phases like RST to RTS, braking almost like with real brakes and even stop! Our scooter has a reverse gear... remember? If you are forcing it backwards then you are not regenerating, you are applying reverse power.
And then why are you wearing out brake pads ar all??
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | said by Hayward: If you are forcing it backwards then you are not regenerating, you are applying reverse power. No need to graphically demonstrate ignorance, again...
During regenerative breaking the motor controller extract mechanical energy out of the motor at any desired rate. Electric vehicles do not need mechanical brakes. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | said by public:said by Hayward: If you are forcing it backwards then you are not regenerating, you are applying reverse power. No need to graphically demonstrate ignorance, again... During regenerative breaking the motor controller extract mechanical energy out of the motor at any desired rate. Electric vehicles do not need mechanical brakes. Look at the words they USED..... FORCING backwards that means APPLYING reverse energy not just capturing.
And all electric vehicles have mechanical brakes in addition to any regenerative braking.
True regeneration can only apply the load of the batteries charging and not frying them (or the motor/gen)... anything more is shunting (wasted) to a resistive load or maybe a flywheel. In the case of a scooter or bicycle the motors are usually 1KW or less... many only 400W or so and some even less not enough load or capacity to really stop you just slow you down while getting some energy back.
Al cars still have mechanical brakes, regen braking will not hold you on a hill.
Even deisel electric trains do, though they use resistive shunt dynamic braking mostly for not coming to a stop braking.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA | said by Hayward:And all electric vehicles have mechanical brakes in addition to any regenerative braking. For emergency use, should the controller fail.
Parking brake is not really a service brake. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
1 edit | Again I'd like to see you have a purely regenerative brake hold you on a hill. It would have to apply power to do so.
Bikes with regen motors still have hand brakes to actually stop you or hold you on a slope. Cars do too. It would be silly to use battery power to hold you on a hill going nowhere.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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said by Hayward:If you are forcing it backwards then you are not regenerating, you are applying reverse power. And then why are you wearing out brake pads ar all?? I didn't mean that it needs no brakes. It was just a statement of an option that the DC motors leak. Meaning that even if the brake pads fail, there is still an option to stop the vehicle and avoid an accident. |
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1 edit | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:FORCING backwards that means APPLYING reverse energy not just capturing. Yes, forcing means applying power to the motor and make the vehicle stop, even go backwards without use of the brakes. It is an option, not a everyday use!
said by Hayward:In the case of a scooter or bicycle the motors are usually 1KW or less... With exceptions...
said by Hayward:many only 400W or so and some even less not enough load or capacity to really stop you just slow you down while getting some energy back. Not true... I have experienced it. It's a slow, but a good one... I was almost thrown in front of the scooter on a downhill during a electronics fail on a test. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
2 edits | said by ackovski:said by Hayward:many only 400W or so and some even less not enough load or capacity to really stop you just slow you down while getting some energy back. Not true... I have experienced it. It's a slow, but a good one... I was almost thrown in front of the scooter on a downhill during a electronics fail on a test. And again why bikes have hand brakes.
Hard to tell which direction you mean the fail, full ahead or full reverse. A controller could fail either way or just go dead.(the usual case)
One of my bikes broke one wire in the controller cable, so its always full throttle. But both hand brakes have cut out switches on them.... so no a real issue other than trying to go slow under power.
Its just on/off.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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1 edit | said by Hayward:And again why bikes have hand brakes. Hard to tell which direction you mean the fail, full ahead or full reverse. A controller could fail either way or just go dead.(the usual case) Man you want too much details... In fact it was a code bug, not a electronics fail. The scooter has a rpm sensor that sends information to the microprocessor wich controls the frequency of the motor. The code of the microprocessor had a bug that was leading to switching to a very low frequency on a high speed. Meaning forcing the motor/scooter to move VERY slow, from about 30mph to 5mph.
said by Hayward:One of my bikes broke one wire in the controller cable, so its always full throttle. But both hand brakes have cut out switches on them.... so no a real issue other than trying to go slow under power. Its just on/off. Your problem is probably the hall sensor of the acceleration grip. If it's the hall, then it's not full, but half throttle. That would be because you use the full range of the hall (negative and positive)... use the positive only, you lose some sensitivity, but that problem is gone. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | said by ackovski:said by Hayward:One of my bikes broke one wire in the controller cable, so its always full throttle. But both hand brakes have cut out switches on them.... so no a real issue other than trying to go slow under power. Its just on/off. Your problem is probably the hall sensor of the acceleration grip. If it's the hall, then it's not full, but half throttle. No it is JUST what I said it was... hit a pothole that threw me in to a sign post... at low speed but crimpts the control cable against the handlebar.
It severed one conductor that happened to be the shunt one. So turn it on full throttle, unless you hold one of the brakes which again both have cut out switches on them. So not really a big issues and slow to fix the problem, also because it happened very near the throttle so one an inch or two of splice space. If it were thicker wire I would just use a pin shoved in each end but its real fine wire.
But again with the cut outs not really an issue just no fine control just on or off. The cut out is very sensitive to so you aren't really braking yet... just kills the motor.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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| reply to ackovski
Things going better... we had contact from professors of the local university and some Austrian consultant of an investment group. |
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 Vamp9190Premium
join:2002-02-11
Chantilly, VA
kudos:1 | reply to ackovski
Very cool.
Hey do you have a company registered in Macedonia? If not, you should set one up.
Call it 'Mace-Tesla' , or 'Tesla-Mace' ,or 'Tesla-Donia', or 'Tesladonia'
Then the scooter would be the Tesla-Mace Scooter
Also, you can look into getting a Worldwide Patent on the design - investors usually want to know that as the first question. |
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