shaner
Premium
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB
| reply to DKS
Re: Canadian Firearms Registry is NO MORE.
said by DKS  :said by PseudoNIMH :JOY! Great News, support C-391  Not on my life. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. And people (largely women and children) will die. quote:
Rifles and shotguns are the guns most often used to threaten women and children, and the weapons of choice in murders of police officers. Many are stolen from legal owners and are also seized from gangs. The Ruger mini 14 used in the Montreal Massacre to kill 14 young girls and injure 28 is still sold as an unrestricted hunting rifle. The possession of rifles and shotguns should be regulated. There are still too many tragedies involving rifles and shotguns, for example:
• Heidi Ferguson was shot by her estranged husband at her Orangeville (ON) home in September 2009. An avid hunter and gun collector, it is believed that he later turned the gun on himself.
• In July 2009, Joan Hanson, her daughter and granddaughter wer e shot by her estranged husband who then turned the rifle on himself at her rural home in northern Alberta. Financial pressure is believed to have been a motive.
• In November 2008, 84-year-old Lily Walker was shot by her husband who committed suicide in Red Deer Alberta.
• In February 2008, an 8-year-old wounded his 9-year-old friend with his father’s .22 calibre rifle while playing “guns” in the basement of his house on Manitoulin Island (ON).
• In February 2008, a teenager in Whitby (ON) contacted police as her distraught stepfather had locked himself in a closet with a rifle and was threatening to commit suicide. Police found 26 firearms inside the house, all of them legally registered.
• A 16 years old girl was shot in the head by her 17 years-old ex-boyfriend in Regina, Saskatchewan with a stolen rifle and ammunition in October 2007. The girl lost one eye, the hearing in her right ear, experienced paralysis on one side of her face, some brain damage and had to relearn how to walk, speak, chew and swallow.
• In September 2007, Kathryn Knudsen was shot to death in broad daylight in the parking lot of a local park in Sarnia (ON) by her boyfriend who committed suicide at the same time
• The man found guilty of triple murder in Ontario stole a rifle on a nearby farm in July 2007 and killed Bill and Helene Regier at their Mount Carmel’s (ON) farmhouse.
» www.cacp.ca/media/news/download/···LERT.pdf And how exactly would the long gun registry have prevented those crimes? The registry didn't take guns away. Those people still would have had their guns available to them to commit those crimes.
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I'm a man, but I can change. If I have to. I guess.
The opinions in this post are wholly my own and in no way reflect the opinions of, or are influenced by, Bell Canada or its affiliate companies. |
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Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
South Dildo, NL
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur :Registering cars does not reduce car theft, just as registering long-guns has not reduced long-gun crime. But if a vehicle is used for a crime, the registration allows police to track down its owner to help solve the crime.
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It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation. |
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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer :said by Sears :Gee, I wonder what party you support. really?...because the NDP, Liberal and Conservatives have all supported this bill. : No, it was a free vote, the Liberals and NDP parties are all for the gun registry
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Jake: "Four fried chickens, and a coke" Elwood: "And some dry white toast, pleas |
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Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
South Dildo, NL | I think it was 12 NDP and 8 Lieberal, who were from rural areas. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer :said by DKS :said by Last Parade :too real? Too wrong, as well as a whole bunch of other things. Racist, for one. it isn't wrong...it has already been stated that the LARGEST source of smuggled weapons, guns, drugs and smokes come from the natives, period. and don't throw the race card at me. Got proof? And if you make a racist statement, have the integrity to either withdraw it or prove it.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur :All that document show is that police have accessed the registry, a description of activity. There is no verifiable, quantifiable link between the long-gun registry and reduction in gun crime. It's conjecture. No, it's not. As the CACP said, knowing the potential for weapons being present in a given situation is a huge advantage for police officers and their personal and operational safety. In addition, the convictions in the Mayerthorpe RCMP deaths were secured through the tracking of two registered firearms. There are other convictions, as the CACP says.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
 ·Bright House
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to DKS
said by DKS :Got proof? And if you make a racist statement, have the integrity to either withdraw it or prove it. Guns, illegal immigrants, and drugs from border reserves? Yeah. This is North America's dirty little secret, because if you research it your already a racist. Ask someone from the RCMP, dig a bit, start poking the right members of various police forces and you get a wealth of information. The first warriors of the first nations are about the largest problem police have these days, there's divisions with hundreds of officers dedicated to it. Know why? Because the band police are afraid to police their own areas because groups like the Mohawks are nothing more than thugs. Know where the majority of problems like this come from see previous group. Know why? Because you can't search them, and they have free crossing any at anytime in North America. Makes it wholly convenient.
I wrote my term paper on this subject for criminology(native smuggling and the gun registry). And yeah. Most cops don't like the registry anyway, they already know it's useless. The only ones that like it are usually the chiefs of police because it lets them do what they do best, push numbers and stats. For the average street cop and detective? 95% of your gun crime issues are from guns entering illegally, and those are cross border. Across the border however is vague. Some enter from the US, however a larger number are starting to come from Mexico and from China. |
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vue666
join:2007-12-07
| reply to Robert
said by Robert :I think it was 12 NDP and 8 Lieberal, who were from rural areas. You are correct....
NDP:
Niki Ashton (Churchill, Man.)
Charlie Angus (Timmins, Ont.)
Malcolm Allen (Welland, Ont.)
John Rafferty (Thunder Bay-Rainy River, Ont.)
Peter Stoffer (Sackville-Eastern Shore, N.S.)
Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic)
Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley, B.C.)
Bruce Hyer (Thunder Bay-Superior North, Ont.)
Glenn Thibeault (Sudbury, Ont.)
Jim Maloway (Elmwood-Transcona, Man.)
Carol Hughes (Algoma-Manitoulin-Kapuskasing, Ont.)
Claude Gravelle (Nickel Belt, Ont.)
Liberal:
Wayne Easter (Malpeque, P.E.I.)
Jean-Claude D’Amours (Madawaska-Restigouche, N.B.)
Keith Martin (Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca, B.C.)
Scott Simms (Grand Falls, N.L.)
Todd Russell (Labrador, N.L.)
Larry Bagnell (Yukon)
Anthony Rota (Nipissing-Timiskaming, Ont.)
Scott Andrews (Avalon, N.L.)
Ind: 1
Andre Arthur (Portneuf, Que)
»www.canada.com/news/vote+repeal+···ory.html |
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peterboro1
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer :having friends and family in law enforcement gives me a lot more credible information that what you read on the front page of the CBC website on a regular basis... I don't read the CBC website and an organization that represents 90% of police officers in Canada has a lot more credibility than a few cops you claim to know.
you treat EVERY domestic dispute as having the potential for danger/weapons...considering that the vast majority of weapons used for criminal purposes AREN'T registered in the first place, you can't simply assume that since there aren't weapons registered, there aren't any there... Thanks captain obvious. But I guess someone putting their life on the line wants as much info as possible or they wouldn't have this position would they?
you wouldn't last one shift as a cop... Neither would you. Oh no you tricked me DJ. You set me up so that you can tell us all how you went on a drive along for a shift and turned on the lights and siren.
Thus making you the official DSLR law enforcement authority.
be thankful you can sit comfy in your chair on the computer while the REAL people who risk their lives are out there doing it on a daily basis. As opposed to supporting policies like yourself that put their lives even more at risk. |
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peterboro1
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
| reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur :Where is the evidence that the registry is used for that purpose? "One of the most important concerns domestic violence calls every police service in Canada gets.
The registry ensures we are able to check for the presence of firearms."
»https://www.cacp.ca/media/news/download/···stry.pdf
Are statements from those who represent tens of thousands of police officers that this is what it is being used for good enough? |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to Sears
those articles point to the fact that the RCMP have already stated a vast majority of illegal guns, drugs and cigarettes are smuggled across the borders by the natives...and don't think that illegal cigarettes aren't a problem...they are...because not only is the province losing out on billions of tax dollars that is used to fund our health care, that money is going into the hands of very people doing the smuggling, the natives...often heavily involved in organized crime and other drug and weapons related activities.
and before you go and call me a racist, i am not saying that ALL natives are gun wielding drug using criminals...i am simply stating that it has already been stated that the largest smugglers of these items is the reserves.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to DKS
said by DKS :Got proof? And if you make a racist statement, have the integrity to either withdraw it or prove it. it isn't a racist statement, DKS...the RCMP (among others) have already pointed to that fact.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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IamGimli
join:2004-02-28
Canada
 ·Primus Talkbroadband
·B2B2C High-Speed I..
| reply to DKS
said by DKS :No, it's not. As the CACP said, knowing the potential for weapons being present in a given situation is a huge advantage for police officers and their personal and operational safety. Actually, every living police officer I know ALWAYS assumes there's weapons (whether firearms or other) present at every scene they attend. That's how they're trained to stay alive.
As for the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, here's a little insight on their credibility. They are a political lobby group that do NOT represent the opinion of all Chiefs of Police and who have received substancial financial support (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars) from CGI, the IT company who has the contract to maintain the gun registry for the RCMP. Their ethics advisor actually resigned in disgust last April because of their corruption-based manipulation.
said by DKS :In addition, the convictions in the Mayerthorpe RCMP deaths were secured through the tracking of two registered firearms. There are other convictions, as the CACP says. Actually the convictions were secured by a sting operations involving dozens of RCMP officers which lead to one of the two accomplices to admit to his crime and incriminating the other. The registry had a negligible impact on that investigation as the firearm in question had been reported lost or stolen by it's last registered owner, one of the suspects' dad, and the investigating officers were never able to prove otherwise.
As for the comments on owner accountability, how about we put accountability where it belongs, on the user? The only person accountable for a criminal act is the criminal. The tools used or who last legally owned those tools are irrelevant.
What else the gun control lobby won't tell you (they will actually lie to mislead you on that point) is that the registry never had any part in keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Licensing does that, by reviewing ones criminal, psychological and marital history before allowing possession or acquisition. Bill C-391 changes nothing with the licensing process so there goes another lie.
The 10,000 hits on the registry they claim police make every day? They have nothing to do with the registry itself. They're automated hits through CPIC because CPIC will ping the registry when any kind of request gets entered. You get pulled over for speeding? The registry will get pinged at least twice, once when they run your name, another when they run your driver's license, through your home address. Only an average of 17 hits a day actually concern firearms. Besides, since we all still have to be licensed, they can just run your info against whether you have a firearms license and that will tell them if you are likely to legally have firearms. Of course it does nothing to tell them if you illegally have firearms, which is what they should be worried about in the first place anyway.
You want to talk about the problem of stolen guns? How about when the RCMP gives private contractors a listing of firearms owners and their addresses/phone numbers so they can conduct "surveys", like what happened about a month ago? Don't you think that represents a risk for those firearms owners and their firearms? How about the corrupted officials that were uncovered over the years, some with ties to criminal gangs (Hells Angels), who had access to the information contained in the registry? Registries make for great shopping list for criminals and are used to victimize lawful, responsible firearms owners.
Did you know that prosecutors can't even use information gathered from the registry in court because it's too unreliable to be recognized by the legal system?
You want to talk about responsibilities? Have a read of the Firearms Act just for fun. Transportation rules, storage rules, licensing rules, all things that ACTUALLY have an effect on reducing firearm accidents and crimes are un-touched by Bill C-391. The registry has no impact whatsoever on crime and is a monumental waste of money. Want more proof? Did you know that handguns have been registered since the early 1930s in Canada? How effective has handgun registration been to control the illegal possession and use of handguns by organized crime over the last 80 years?
Car registration has absolutely nothing to do with crime prevention or resolution. It has to do with generating revenue for the Government. Guess what? Even if it's not registered a firearm (just like a car) still has a serial number which is used to match it to a theft report and it's lawful owner. Besides, not registering your car doesn't make you a criminal, it merely opens you up for a fine. Letting your car registration lapse doesn't mean your house will be invaded by the SWAT team in the middle of the night, your car seized and prohibited from ever owning another car again for the rest of your like, like what Chief Miller... er Blair is doing to firearms owners in Toronto these days.
I'm glad someone mentioned Dawson College. You do realize that this tragedy happened AFTER the implementation of the registry, right? You do realize that the firearm used in that tragedy WAS registered, right? You do realize that the registry did absolutely NOTHING to prevent or solve that tragedy, right? |
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peterboro1
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
| said by IamGimli : The tools used or who last legally owned those tools are irrelevant. Some interesting facts I was not aware of.
I don't think most Canadians would agree with that statement though.
There should be more civil and criminal prosecution of gun owners if their firearms were used in any criminal activity.
Unless of course they can prove that they took absolutely every precaution to secure them. |
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IamGimli
join:2004-02-28
Canada
·Primus Talkbroadband
·B2B2C High-Speed I..
1 edit | said by peterboro1 :There should be more civil and criminal prosecution of gun owners if their firearms were used in any criminal activity. Unless of course they can prove that they took absolutely every precaution to secure them. Why? Do you think you should be prosecuted if your car is stolen and then used to rob a bank or commit a hit-and-run? Should we prosecute the teenage girl who's the victim of sexual abuse because she wore revealing clothing?
Let the responsibility for the crime rest with the criminal.
Did you know that a firearm collector in Toronto was charged with unsafe storage of firearms a couple of years ago after his vault, which was built like a bank vault, got broken into by a group of professional thieves (took them three days to get through it)? That's plainly and simply nonsense.
Instead of focusing police resources on people who never have had and have shown no indication of ever having any criminal intents why don't we direct those resources to the ACTUAL criminals? You know, the ones who ACTUALLY kill, maim, steal, traffic, etc? |
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peterboro1
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
| said by IamGimli : Why? Do you think you should be prosecuted if your car is stolen and then used to rob a bank or commit a hit-and-run? My car, or knife, or bat or anything else I own wasn't designed solely as an instrument of death. As such guns are to be held to a higher standard.
Yes I read about that guy and if I remember correctly he made a few bad decisions about who he associated with.
Not all legal firearms owners are pillars of the community.
Besides wtf does he need an arsenal for in a large metropolitan area? Oh I forgot he thinks it's his right. |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
·Bright House
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| I always liked the strawman argument when people decide that it's a better idea to escalate along the line of "anything I have can be a weapon of doom, death and destruction." So can 2" of water in a cup, but that doesn't mean much.
We already have an entire act dedicated to it. We don't need more laws around it. Take a look at the "pocket" criminal code lately? Unless my pocket was 8" deep, and 6" wide it wouldn't fit in there.
If you want to go on your anti-gun crusade go for it. Do me a favour and leave those of us who have our FAC's and restricts alone, because yeah we actually are trusted enough to have them. We're just not trusted enough to use them to kill someone in self defense.
Most of humanity aren't pillars of the community, that's just reality. In fact most of humanity is a lost cause, there's just a few grains of gold in the sand that makes it worthwhile.
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The Art of War
"Excessive law is no law." - Cicero
The man who fed the world |
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IamGimli
join:2004-02-28
Canada
·Primus Talkbroadband
·B2B2C High-Speed I..
3 edits | reply to peterboro1
said by peterboro1 :My car, or knife, or bat or anything else I own wasn't designed solely as an instrument of death. As such guns are to be held to a higher standard. Pardon? Knives were exactly designed thousands of years ago by our ancestors for the specific purpose of killing prey and ennemies, just like firearms. They have other purposes (just like firearms), but they were decidedly designed to kill. They are also used just as much to commit homicides in Canada as firearms (»www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/le···-eng.htm) and 50% more than firearms in the case of spousal homicide (»www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-224-x/8···-eng.pdf table 3.4). Where's the higher standard for knives?
When has a gun ever been involved in a crime without someone pulling the trigger? I can guaranty that well over 99% of all firearms in Canada never killed anyone. Are they all defective?
said by peterboro1 :Yes I read about that guy and if I remember correctly he made a few bad decisions about who he associated with. Not all legal firearms owners are pillars of the community. Besides wtf does he need an arsenal for in a large metropolitan area? Oh I forgot he thinks it's his right. Arsenal? It's a COLLECTION. Nobody needs motorcycles, better ban those too, especially since the biker gangs use them. Nobody needs pools, hundreds of kids drown in family pools every year, better ban those too. How about fireplaces, they burn houses down and kill people, out!
Just because YOU don't find an interest or use in firearms doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How about you let peaceful, legal, safe firearm owners alone and we don't try to make YOUR useless hobby/property illegal?
I'm sure some of the people you hang out with smoke pot (whether you know it or not), which is a crime. Should we hold you responsible when they commit crimes against you?
Here's another interesting fact for you. Did you know that Great Britain for all intents and purposes banned all private firearm ownership a few years ago? Do you know what the results of that ban are? Criminality has skyrocketed, especially violent crimes involving firearms, because criminals know that nobody can effectively put up a fight. It's gotten so bad that the traditionally firearm-less bobbies are now forced to carry handguns and sub-machine guns on their regular patrols. Now do you also know that it's the very same people and organizations that lobbied the British legislature for that ban that's now lobbying the Canadian Government for similar laws (conveniently not mentioning the results they encountered in England)?
Firearms are inert objects. They cannot be responsible for crimes, no matter how much opportunistic control freaks want you to believe it. |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| good lord...has hell frozen over??...three posts in a row in which i 100% agree with what you have said...maybe i am still asleep and this is just a weird twilight zone type dream. 
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to Robert
said by Robert :said by digitalfutur :Registering cars does not reduce car theft, just as registering long-guns has not reduced long-gun crime. But if a vehicle is used for a crime, the registration allows police to track down its owner to help solve the crime. Using that logic every person should provide a DNA sample to the government, and there should be closed circuit TV cameras, with audio, on every street corner. Because anyone has the capability to commit a criminal act. The more tools police have at their disposal, the better.
The registration of every long gun is not proportional to the benefit received. Unlike handguns, there are legitimate uses for rifle and shotguns outside of law enforcement. And a licence is already required to own either, or buy ammunition.
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. "Walk the Talk". |
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