DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Last Parade
Re: Canadian Firearms Registry is NO MORE.
said by Last Parade  :too real? Too wrong, as well as a whole bunch of other things. Racist, for one.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to PseudoNIMH
said by PseudoNIMH :JOY! Great News, support C-391  Not on my life. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. And people (largely women and children) will die.
quote:
Rifles and shotguns are the guns most often used to threaten women and children, and the weapons of choice in murders of police officers. Many are stolen from legal owners and are also seized from gangs. The Ruger mini 14 used in the Montreal Massacre to kill 14 young girls and injure 28 is still sold as an unrestricted hunting rifle. The possession of rifles and shotguns should be regulated. There are still too many tragedies involving rifles and shotguns, for example:
• Heidi Ferguson was shot by her estranged husband at her Orangeville (ON) home in September 2009. An avid hunter and gun collector, it is believed that he later turned the gun on himself.
• In July 2009, Joan Hanson, her daughter and granddaughter wer e shot by her estranged husband who then turned the rifle on himself at her rural home in northern Alberta. Financial pressure is believed to have been a motive.
• In November 2008, 84-year-old Lily Walker was shot by her husband who committed suicide in Red Deer Alberta.
• In February 2008, an 8-year-old wounded his 9-year-old friend with his father’s .22 calibre rifle while playing “guns” in the basement of his house on Manitoulin Island (ON).
• In February 2008, a teenager in Whitby (ON) contacted police as her distraught stepfather had locked himself in a closet with a rifle and was threatening to commit suicide. Police found 26 firearms inside the house, all of them legally registered.
• A 16 years old girl was shot in the head by her 17 years-old ex-boyfriend in Regina, Saskatchewan with a stolen rifle and ammunition in October 2007. The girl lost one eye, the hearing in her right ear, experienced paralysis on one side of her face, some brain damage and had to relearn how to walk, speak, chew and swallow.
• In September 2007, Kathryn Knudsen was shot to death in broad daylight in the parking lot of a local park in Sarnia (ON) by her boyfriend who committed suicide at the same time
• The man found guilty of triple murder in Ontario stole a rifle on a nearby farm in July 2007 and killed Bill and Helene Regier at their Mount Carmel’s (ON) farmhouse.
»www.cacp.ca/media/news/download/···LERT.pdf
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a
clubs:
1 edit | Talk about propaganda. What would the registry have done in those cases of stolen weapons DKS?
There is never going to be a perfectly sane, safe society----with firearms or without. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Rifleman :Talk about propaganda. What would the registry have done in those cases of stolen weapons DKS? There is never going to be a perfectly sane, safe society----with firearms or without. No one is talking about perfection. But there is a safer and more responsible society in Canada with the long gun registry. owning a weapon is not a right but a privilige, with responsibilities. Live up to them.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by DKS :No one is talking about perfection. But there is a safer and more responsible society in Canada with the long gun registry. owning a weapon is not a right but a privilige, with responsibilities. Live up to them. the vast majority of people who own long guns ARE law abiding citizens...it is VERY rare that crimes are committed with long guns, and even if they were, criminals don't use registered firearms.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to DKS
said by DKS :said by Last Parade :too real? Too wrong, as well as a whole bunch of other things. Racist, for one. it isn't wrong...it has already been stated that the LARGEST source of smuggled weapons, guns, drugs and smokes come from the natives, period.
and don't throw the race card at me.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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Sears
join:2008-02-17
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer :said by DKS :It's election politics, pure and simple. Sad for Canada, though. no, what is sad is that the $2 billion it cost wasn't put into more meaningful programs...if they want to cut down on the amount of guns and drugs, start arresting the natives that account for most of it. Gee, I wonder what party you support. |
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Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a
clubs: | reply to CoverIt
I know a great many gun owners and have looked for a long long time for an unregistered handgun. There aren't any for sale in law abiding circles. |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to Sears
said by Sears :Gee, I wonder what party you support. really?...because the NDP, Liberal and Conservatives have all supported this bill.
and no, i am not a green, libertarian, marijuana or marxist party supporter. 
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to DKS
All that document show is that police have accessed the registry, a description of activity. There is no verifiable, quantifiable link between the long-gun registry and reduction in gun crime. It's conjecture. The Association of Police Chiefs is making the same logical error: The greater the number of guns registered, the more gun crime will be reduced, and by extension, the fewer people will be killed. No evidence.
Your follow up post seems to be an argument for confiscation, not control.
In any case, criminals are not going to register their guns, of whatever type, and the vast majority of gun crime is committed with handguns, despite the existence since 1931 of a registry for those weapons.
»network.nationalpost.com/np/blog···ype.aspx
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. "Walk the Talk". |
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Sears
join:2008-02-17
2 edits | reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer :said by Sears :Gee, I wonder what party you support. really?...because the NDP, Liberal and Conservatives have all supported this bill. and no, i am not a green, libertarian, marijuana or marxist party supporter. My post had nothing to do with the bill in question, it was related to the blatant xenophobia that you displayed with your previous post.
I've seen so many posts from you where you just throw your opinions out and state them as if they were FACT.
If you have some concrete statistics to imply that the natives do in fact account for most of the gun smuggling in Canada, please post it.
Otherwise, you don't come off too well.
Just a suggestion from your friendly neighbourhood Marxist. |
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BigSensFan
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Whitby, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | reply to CoverIt
I don't own a gun/rifle. I don't hunt.
I do have extensive 'gun' training from when I was with the Cadets. I have shot thousands of rounds. I can strip a rifle down and clean it and re-assemble it
.
My Father-Inlaw has his guns and ammo all stored safely and in separate locations.
He owned them before the registry and treated them with the same respect.
You will always get people killing with guns, regardless of whether there is a registry or not some people will simply 'snap', and in that case you better ban all sharp kitchen knives as well.
In fact I own a compound bow and I could easily use it to kill if I want, and it is not required that I lock it up.
It is not the device that kills it is the person.
The solution lies in a few places
1. Training for Gun users on handling, storage and transportation.
2. Punishment/fines of offenders of people not storing the guns properly (in house or while in transportation)
3. HEAVY, HEAVY punishment of people who commit a crime and have a gun on their possession when caught.
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Amsoil Synthetics
Official Ottawa Senators Message Board |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to Sears
said by Sears :If you have some concrete statistics to imply that the natives do in fact account for most of the gun smuggling in Canada, please post it. tough to find as you would be labelled a racist or profiling, but you can browse these if you would like:
»www.nationalpost.com/most_popula···d=401678
»www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/moha···ons.html
»homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-fi···tt1.html
if you are good with google, feel free to find plenty more.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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peterboro1
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer : the vast majority of people who own long guns ARE law abiding citizens... I'm sure they are and you are always telling us what a fan you are of the police yet they want to keep the registry.
Apparently they believe that going to domestic dispute for example knowing the home has weapons is a good idea.
Are you comfortable keeping law enforcement in the dark and jeopardizing their safety.
Or is this an uncomfortable trade off that appeals to your unbridled love of knee-jerk neo-con policy? |
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dirtyjeffer
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| having friends and family in law enforcement gives me a lot more credible information that what you read on the front page of the CBC website on a regular basis...you treat EVERY domestic dispute as having the potential for danger/weapons...considering that the vast majority of weapons used for criminal purposes AREN'T registered in the first place, you can't simply assume that since there aren't weapons registered, there aren't any there...you wouldn't last one shift as a cop...be thankful you can sit comfy in your chair on the computer while the REAL people who risk their lives are out there doing it on a daily basis.
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Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. |
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Desi
Premium
join:2002-05-05
Kanata, ON
clubs:
| reply to CoverIt
I'm not trying to get into a debate here, I've just always wondered what the "other side" had to say about these points. They seem never to get answered properly.
1. Everybody is a "law abiding citizen", until they commit a crime. Further to that, gun ownership in Canada is not a right rather it is a privilege. In that regard, why shouldn't "law abiding citizens" be forced to register the deadly weapons that they have been allowed to posses so that if and when they are stolen or if and when the "law abiding citizen" decides to snap, the weapon can be traced to its origin and that origin (be it legal or otherwise) dealt with?
2. "Unnecessary burden"? Suck it up princess, that "tool" you own was designed for the sole purpose of killing, paperwork is a necessary part of ownership. Do you hear people whining about having to register the serial number of their new car with the MTO?
3. We already register our cars, and when they are stolen the registration information (VIN, ownership history tied to that VIN) helps track down not only the rightful owners, but can be used to determine patterns and stop more auto theft. Apply that analogy to registered guns. Keep finding guns accross the country that, when the serial number is queried, were all stolen from "law abiding citizens" in the Winnipeg area? Well, you got a drug-running problem in Winnipeg. Commit resources to deal with it.
4. Why the long-gun, hand-gun distinction? Does a long-gun leave you less dead? Not all firearm crimes involve being discreet. Example: Recent Alberta WSB Hostage Situation, Mayerthorpe Shooting, Ecole Polytechnique, Dawson College.
5. The money is gone. Was it misspent? Hell yes. Is canceling this program going to get it back? Nope. Maintaining the registry does not cost all that much. Make the "law abiding gun owners" pay for it, seeing as how they are the ones who want the privilege of owning a firearm. Costs $270/gun to run the program? Great. Charge $270/gun to register it. You can probably find a way to bring that number down to make it more "affordable".
6. The registry alone isn't going to solve anything, that is a given. It is but a tool in what needs to be a multi-pronged approach. The Americans want to fortify their border in the name of "security"? Well, surely we can take a cue from their book and ramp up border controls in the name of slowing the smuggling of American firearms into Canada. Hell, most of our trade goes the other way across the border anyways so some slowdowns shouldn't be a huge concern. Plus we need to diversify out trade anyways. Once you take better control of the smuggling of firearms into the country, the registry helps control those already inside our borders and track them.
7. With relation to 6, no, we will never completely stop smuggling and firearms ending up in the hands of criminals. However what this will achieve is a system whereby the stolen/smuggled gun supply is extremely limited. Will hardened criminals be able to obtain guns? Absolutely, there will always be a way. Will joe-shmoe wannabe gangsta' be able to? Hell no, it'll be too expensive and getting caught will be too risky. Coming back to the registered car analogy, look how difficult is it to move a stolen car, even amongst criminals. Even if you somehow manage to pull off something with the plates, the first time you are caught doing anything and your registration is checked and the VIN shows the car is stolen, you are done. Find some punk that had a gun in an attempted robbery, and its an unregistered firearm? Throw that prick in prison (actual penalties for having unregistered weapons would be needed, not slaps on the wrist). Not only is that another gun off the street, its also one more criminal off the street.
But I digress, I think I may have started rambling at point 3 or something
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The User formerly known as Desi StYlE |
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digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to peterboro1
Where is the evidence that the registry is used for that purpose? How many domestic disputes involved registered long guns? The registry is useless if the long-gun has not been registered.
You're inventing a process for which there is no evidence of use or effectiveness, i.e. confusing intent with results.
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. "Walk the Talk". |
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digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
·Cogeco Cable
2 edits | reply to Desi
Registering cars does not reduce car theft, just as registering long-guns has not reduced long-gun crime.
Cars are registered to identify their owner and for tax revenue, not to reduce vehicle collisions or vehicular deaths. That is the function of driver licensing. The equivalent for guns, the former FAC (firearms acquisition certificate), now called the Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL), is the way to limit legal long-gun ownership to those who have demonstrated competence to handle firearms, with due consideration and appropriate classification given to those living in rural areas or who can demonstrate that long guns are required for their livelihood. The PAL is a requirement to own a rifle or shotgun.
If the public policy objective of the long-gun registry were tax revenue, the long-gun registry would make sense. But that is not the primary reason why its supporters claim that it was created. It was the trigger, based on a single incident, to criminalize the behaviour of hundreds of thousands of Candian citizens by stating, without any evidence, that a long-gun registry in of itself would reduce long-gun crime.
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. "Walk the Talk". |
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Thane_Bitter
join:2005-01-20
London, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Desi
said by Desi :4. Why the long-gun, hand-gun distinction? Does a long-gun leave you less dead? Not all firearm crimes involve being discreet. Desi, the reason for this may come about because a hand gun has no useful purpose in Canada outside of target shooting. You can not hunt with a handgun, you can not carry a hand gun for protection (except law enforcement). If I am not mistaken you may only legally own a hand gun if you are a member of a gun range and are required to have a permit to transport the gun (in a secured state) to and from facility.
I think the registry is fantastically expensive, and there is no proof that it has/will save lives just as having auto insurance will prevent accidents.
I also think the laws surround gun crimes (and violent crimes in general) needs to be toughened up greatly. Criminals’ banishing weapons are doing so for the intent to hurt, a wilful act if you will, thus let them suffer the consequences for it. |
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Sears
join:2008-02-17
2 edits | reply to dirtyjeffer
Solid statistical evidence if I've ever seen any!
A study by the "Mackenzie Institute", a National Post article and a page from "caledoniawakeupcall.com".
The post article isn't even about gun smuggling, its about drug smuggling! Weapons sized does not equal gun smuggling you know. Even if it were, it would change nothing, one case does not make a majority. Next.
Nowhere in this "Mackenzie Institute" study does it claim that the majority of gun smuggling is done by natives. I won't even go into the credibility issue of this "Institute". Next.
I'm not even going to get started with "caledoniawakeupcall.com". Next.
So in the end, you've posted nothing to prove your assertation which you presented as fact.
Sorry, but it's not up to me to back up your wild accusations. |
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