Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala
quote:
Ubuntu 9.10 is causing outrage and frustration, with early adopters wishing they'd stuck with previous versions of the Linux distro.
Blank and flickering screens, failure to recognize hard drives, defaulting to the old 2.6.28 Linux kernel, and failure to get encryption running are taking their toll, as early adopters turn to the web for answers and log fresh bug reports in Ubuntu forums.
...
They're in good company, as more than a fifth of people upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 have reported issues they can't fix, according to an Ubuntuforums.org poll here. Only around 10 per cent of those upgrading or installing reported a completely flawless experience.
Overall, those installing Ubuntu 9.10 on a clean machine are having a slightly easier time than those making the upgrade. Users installing Ubuntu 9.10 were able to solve more of the niggling problems than those trying to upgrade from an older version.
Ouch.
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Obamanomics: Trickle-up poverty. |
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Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Idiots. When someone does a dist-upgrade to any release, temporary issues are bound to occur to some extent. This is only news for the inept, so cry me a river. No doubt Linux is more stable than Windoze, but a flawless upgrade people expect? I have seldom seen such a thing in my life even with the more conservative Debian. Hell, Windoze claims it and charges for it but does it deliver that for everyone? Hell no. Upgraded several machines to Karmic during the last month of it being a beta and noticed nothing but the typical upgrade snafus. Bug fix upgrades rolled in fast during that time, but the machines were all stable during and after them. Defaulting to the old kernel-what a laugh. Edit menu.list if you did the dirty upgrade. You're still using the old GRUB, in that case. I'm sorry but these issues do not sound like software defects to me, but user defects instead. I am almost willing to bet some of those "unrecognized hard drive" cases is someone not mounting the drive, editing fstab properly, or have not even formatted the drive after adding a new one. Why? I have done this upgrade to over 10 machines thus far(some mine, some for family) and have not seen a hint of this with varying hardware. Plus, I know the aptitude of the "average user" all too well from my field of work.
Edit: For gfx driver issues for which no fix is known, as they put it-force XAA in xorg.conf and see if it clears up. Karmic forces EXA by default, but the open source drivers have limited EXA support. This will especially hurt with KDE, as many bits KDE uses cannot currently be accelerated with EXA. That was simple. |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| There are a lot of 'sky is falling' type blogs and news articles out there about Karmic problems and the one referenced here is probably the leader of the pack.
The dist-upgrade process with ubuntu is a bit odd in a sense because it tries to micro-manage a lot of things from the system getting the upgrade unless there's known issues then something gets defaulted or changed and then this seems to have a cascading effect. Saying it's an upgrade in the general sense is true but really you're getting something new of every package on your system (even if the version number does not change since it's all compiled again). So you get a brand new system plus brand new of everything you installed plus your old configurations. It very similar to a Windows XP>Vista Upgrade thing happening every 6 months but it's marketed as something not so major. 
I think it's a really simple problem to identify too and this week makes it easy to see. Development for Lucid has started and as always it's not in a useable sate and won't be for a long time and it doesn't matter what kind of shape Karmic is in because it is different.  In six months most of you will still 'upgrade' and it all starts over and will seem like an improvement over the previous. The fear of changes has created this six month cycle process to separate those who can from those who can't with the simple words of "don't upgrade if you think it might break". Almost the perfect lazy support situation which I'm sure is a very real factor in the whole thing. I'm starting to think I'm in this permanent state of a pipe dream to believe that something great could could be created if there were 6 months of development done on top of a perfect working system rather than one starting in "very considerable flux" with the added tip of being "comfortable with recovering from anything up to complete system failure".
That said I ultimately stick to clean installs plus my configs I need and then install the missing packages as I need them or notice they are missing since it doesn't benefit me to have them all downloaded at once and have to wait extra for a dist-upgrade to finish. I try to replace the bits i need in ~/.kde and make any changes in /etc along with installing any extra video drivers before I login to the desktop. After that I can usually have my interface and fonts adjusted within 5 minutes and I'm back and running and getting the full benefits of the upgrade without having bits of the old system in place doing things in a deprecated way possibly.
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Say no to JAMS! |
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Lurkarooski
@verizon.net
| reply to Cabal
My first-hand experience with the upgrade could NOT be more opposite the 'findings' in that article. It was, for me, an excellent experience. I have an old SiS video card that it recognized, as always. I have an old SoundBlaster audio card that has been given new life - my system has MUCH more punch than it did with 9.04, or any previous Ubuntu version.
The more time I spend in 9.10, the more I like it. For me, this is the best version yet, and I really had no complaints with any of the previous versions.
That said, it's inevitable that some users will have issues, and it seems it's become very fashionable in the Linux community to take shots at Ubuntu. They've become the second-favorite target, after you-know-who.
I feel bad for those that have had problems, but to paraprhase a wise man, "I really don't care if it's good enough to make it onto your desktop, so long as it stays good enough to remain on mine". It's all that, and more so far - and I'm one of those that usually wait 3-4 weeks to upgrade. I'm glad I didn't wait this time - I have no regrets. |
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Santa Fe
Visit www.ALZ.ORG
Premium,ExMod 2002-7
join:2000-08-22
Freight Yard
clubs: 
·Mediacom
| reply to Cabal
I'll admit, I was one of the having problems after the upgrade. Programs taking forever to load, Firefox suddenly missing the contents of it's Options window (Just TRY to change anything like fonts or settings when you have a big empty box staring you in the face!).
There were some others also, but the next day saw a bunch of updates, and having installed them it's been fun ever since! Now everything works fine, but I still miss Login Window & hate Login Screen. 
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November is National Alzheimer’s Disease Awareness Month and National Family Caregivers Month!
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Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Cabal
I've had few issues. Still not sure about the new Sounds scheme and Conky seems to crash on me on a regular basis.
I have no real need for Conky so I just don't autostart it anymore. Someday I play around to see if I can figure out what's going on there but it's pretty low on my list of priorities.
I sure as hell don't feel "bloodied" in any sense of the word.
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my site: »www.lairdslair.com/
I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong! |
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jeffster1970
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
clubs: | reply to Cabal
Yep..though my main issue - machine can't go to sleep, was resolved by unmounting SD Card first...
can't find any other issues yet..give me some time |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON | reply to Cabal
I have one issue on the three machines I've upgraded so far, the affected machine does a kernel malfunction if it goes in sleep mode and then wakes up again.
That's about it.... |
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orion940
Paralyzed By Confusion
Premium
join:2001-12-23
Windsor, CT
·AT&T Yahoo
1 edit | reply to Cabal
I got it on three different machines, two I upgraded when the RC came out, one I laid it down (server edition) clean. I didn't have to reinstall a bunch of stuff, which was a big plus. I had issues with fonts on one machine, but got over it after a couple updates.
All in all, I was lucky I guess. It was one of the cleanest upgrades I've been through (Windows, Linux, DOS). If anything, the 9.10 update strengthened my like of Ubuntu on the desktop.
O.
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Nothing has more momentum than mass stupidity. |
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kleeman
Australian Expat
join:2000-07-29
Nyack, NY
1 edit | reply to Cabal
The flashing issue was caused by upstart constantly trying to restart a dying gdm process. gdm was dying because of video driver issues but upstart stopped a fallback to coarse resolution. A fix was released today in the proposed repo.
Upstart was tasked with a lot more of the initialization than before and there have been a number of other significant under the hood changes. These sort of problems are to be expected when you start changing a lot of basic system stuff. |
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BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
| reply to Cabal
Have run into trouble with upgrading the UNR, but overall LOVE 9.10. Always backup data. Always BACKUP DATA!. Even with OSX/Windiz I did a fresh install AND BACKED UP THE DATA BEFORE INSTALLING. Can't make that clear enough to people upgrading/installing/re-installing. |
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jdong
Eat A Beaver, Save A Tree.
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Rochester, MI
clubs: | reply to Cabal
The GDM infinite restart bug is fixed -- bulletproof X is restored in karmic-updates.
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Ubuntu MOTU Developer and Forums Council |
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redhatnation
Premium
join:2005-06-02
Woodbridge, VA | reply to Cabal
Hilarious. Guy at work is a big Ubuntu fan. He upgraded his laptop recently. Had nothing but trouble. One example: the laptop takes a good five minutes to shutdown. |
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Santa Fe
Visit www.ALZ.ORG
Premium,ExMod 2002-7
join:2000-08-22
Freight Yard
clubs: | reply to Cabal
So, would you say some people are suffering from Bad karmic? |
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Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to redhatnation
said by redhatnation  :Hilarious. Guy at work is a big Ubuntu fan. He upgraded his laptop recently. Had nothing but trouble. One example: the laptop takes a good five minutes to shutdown. I fail to see what is "hilarious" about the guy at works' problems. Do you also giggle at funerals?
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my site: »www.lairdslair.com/
I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong! |
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No_Strings
Premium,Mod
join:2001-11-22
The OC | Few things are more annoying than listening to someone drone on about their favorite thing and how it's better than whatever you have/use.
Few things are more rewarding than when said thing blows up in someone's face. |
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Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by No_Strings :Few things are more annoying than listening to someone drone on about their favorite thing and how it's better than whatever you have/use. Few things are more rewarding than when said thing blows up in someone's face. I suppose if we assume that was the case.
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my site: »www.lairdslair.com/
I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong! |
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jdong
Eat A Beaver, Save A Tree.
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Rochester, MI
clubs:
| reply to Cabal
I haven't exactly seen one distribution (no not even Debian) release something that isn't met with some regressions discovered by the huge influx in userbase. But a sensationalist headline like this is a bit over the top and definitely jumping to conclusions.
Are there regressions in Karmic? Absolutely -- otherwise I would not be spending several hours of my day neglecting my coursework and possibly ruining my academic standing this term to sift through the patch queue for karmic-proposed/karmic-updates.
However, nothing's more frustrating and discouraging than pouring your heart into something like this for personal pleasure then reading shortsighted media commentary regarding what a vocal minority of the userbase is experiencing.
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Ubuntu MOTU Developer and Forums Council |
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Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by jdong :I haven't exactly seen one distribution (no not even Debian) release something that isn't met with some regressions discovered by the huge influx in userbase. But a sensationalist headline like this is a bit over the top and definitely jumping to conclusions. Are there regressions in Karmic? Absolutely -- otherwise I would not be spending several hours of my day neglecting my coursework and possibly ruining my academic standing this term to sift through the patch queue for karmic-proposed/karmic-updates. However, nothing's more frustrating and discouraging than pouring your heart into something like this for personal pleasure then reading shortsighted media commentary regarding what a vocal minority of the userbase is experiencing. I hate sensationalist "idiots" as I put it. They victimize people who pour their time and effort for that headline that will get them extra site hits and misinform the public. They are parasites. I have had my personal run-ins with them in my career.
I appreciate your effort both here and on Ubuntu. There are other things I like using too, but it's the efforts of people like you that allow us that kind of freedom of choice in this pro-corporate world. Karmic is good enough for me and countless others. Don't let sensationalist idiots ruin your education. You have done great things for the community and I am sure you will continue to do so. Taking a break for your own well-being(that is passing your classes) is a wise thing to do. |
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kleeman
Australian Expat
join:2000-07-29
Nyack, NY | reply to jdong
It takes 30 minutes to post a narcissistic negative blog entry and days of back breaking work to actually do something concrete and useful. Such is the joy of the modern world: Low hanging rotten fruit. |
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