d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV | reply to ejg1
Re: Interesting and major DSL performance problem
Are there any outside lights on such as a sodium or mercury vapor lamp in the backyard? |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| reply to ejg1
I am going to redo the tests because my laptop battery was running out plus I needed to turn on the lights in the garage to keep working.
I took a step even further. I flipped off the power breakers to the house. Only the small breaker for the garage is on. Now I feel more confident.
The goal is to use the same power chord plugged in at the same place for both tests. The first test will be at the outside box and the next at my standard outlet. With everything off they just have to be the same… I mean they just have to be!!! It should not take that long to do this and to post.. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| I am really bothered at these results. The electricity circuit breaker is off for most all the house. except the garage. Nothing can be running to be generating any interference.
But on the other hand... the speed tests are *really* close. The inside results might open the door for the TV RFI to make an impact though.
Speed tests at the outside box: 5144/657, 5138/654, 5142/651
Speed tests inside the house...: 5140/645, 5139/654, 5139/654
OUTSIDE
Downstream Current Rate (Reported): 6016
Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 8584
Downstream Bit Margin (Calculated): 476
Upstream Current Rate (Reported): 768
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 1074
Upstream Bit Margin (Reported): 96
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
bit(s) 38:41 163.875 - 181.125 KHz
bit(s) 130 560.625 - 564.9375 KHz
bit(s) 141:142 608.0625 - 616.6875 KHz
bit(s) 156:160 672.75 - 694.3125 KHz
bit(s) 186:190 802.125 - 823.6875 KHz
bit(s) 198:201 853.875 - 871.125 KHz
bit(s) 211 909.9375 - 914.25 KHz
bit(s) 222:223 957.375 - 966 KHz
bit(s) 241:247 1039.3125 - 1069.5 KHz
bit(s) 255 1099.6875 - 1104 KHz
INSIDE
Downstream Current Rate (Reported): 6016
Downstream Maxrate (Estimated): 6732
Downstream Bit Margin (Calculated): 424
Upstream Current Rate (Reported): 768
Upstream Maxrate (Estimated): 1044
Upstream Bit Margin (Reported): 96
Bit tones with notches/missing bits:
bit(s) 38:42 163.875 - 185.4375 KHz
bit(s) 128:134 552 - 582.1875 KHz
bit(s) 141:142 608.0625 - 616.6875 KHz
bit(s) 153 659.8125 - 664.125 KHz
bit(s) 155:166 668.4375 - 720.1875 KHz
bit(s) 169:174 728.8125 - 754.6875 KHz
bit(s) 176 759 - 763.3125 KHz
bit(s) 179 771.9375 - 776.25 KHz
bit(s) 181 780.5625 - 784.875 KHz
bit(s) 185:190 797.8125 - 823.6875 KHz
bit(s) 195:202 840.9375 - 875.4375 KHz
bit(s) 204 879.75 - 884.0625 KHz
bit(s) 206:208 888.375 - 901.3125 KHz
bit(s) 210:212 905.625 - 918.5625 KHz
bit(s) 220:227 948.75 - 983.25 KHz
bit(s) 229 987.5625 - 991.875 KHz
bit(s) 234 1009.125 - 1013.4375 KHz
bit(s) 236 1017.75 - 1022.0625 KHz
bit(s) 239:255 1030.6875 - 1104 KHz |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
1 edit | reply to ejg1
Forget about the speed tests. They are going to be about the same as long as you have full sync speeds, 6016, and a "decent" maxrate margin over the 6016 speeds, say at least 10% more. The decent maxrate margin implies that you have a reasonably high enough noise margin that your line isn't going to be plagued by CRC errors which would drive up packet loss and drive down your thoroughput speeds.
Did that explanation make sense to you? Keep the maxrate way up or another way to look at the same thing is to keep the noise margin high and you won't have problem.
Edit: Do you have a portable radio? »Ameritech - SBC FAQ »My DSL loses sync regularly. How can I detect interference with an AM Radio? Instead of following the FAQ to tune low on the AM dial, try tuning to to the mid-point frequencies of some of those notches. They might be AM radio stations, and your phone wiring is picking them up very well for some reason. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| I think what you are saying is… if the max rate is as high as possible it implies my signal to noise will be as high as possible making it difficult for the same level of RFI to bleed into and degrade my DSL signal.
Is it possible to run a second line from my box to serve just the DSL signal inside the house??? I am not clear how to do that and not affect the same circuitry the house already has which knocks out some frequency bins. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA | reply to d_l
oh... I have no portable radios that are plugged in and especially not anything that can be working with the circuit breakers flipped off for the house.
I will have a look at that FAQ. Time to flip on the TV too... |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
2 edits | reply to ejg1
That second line is a home run and you will need a POTS splitter (or in a pinch a microfilter can be used ) at the NID where you tested. The home run would need to be strung to avoid running too close (within several feet) to the house power lines in the walls or else you will duplicate your current noise problems on it.
You need to walk around with a battery powered radio to listen for interference noise. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| It will take me a year to fumble around with a portable radio.
Is the pots splitter solution something a crafty guy like me can negotiate? Where do I find a POTS splitter and instructions how to go about this?
If I do it myself will I piss off the telco? |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to ejg1
Telco doesn't mind. You will be working on your side of the NID.
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »I don’t have a splitter. Can I use an in-line filter for a home run?
»Ameritech - SBC FAQ »NID Splitters and Installation
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »What equipment and tools are required for a homerun? Where can I get them?
»Inside Wiring FAQ »Detailed Homerun Instructions
It is possible that the home run isn't the only solution. That's why you check with the radio first. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
1 edit | Topic 1
Your links have kept me quite busy. Lots of great stuff there. I just may be able to do this. There is one slot available for the POTS splitter as can be seen in the photo I posted earlier.
Good to go... I think.
Topic 2
I am reading a lot about what kind of cabling to use. It seems many people are looking to the future. Fewer are using CAT 3 cable and now going to CAT6.
Now if I understood things properly, the higher the CAT rating, the better the shielding and twisting properties of the copper wires inside. The length of the cabling I need is piddly so the costs for that are nothing.
I understand I will only be using a single copper pair from the CAT6 cable. Some might say it is overkill and a waste. But if the shielding properties are so much better, that is what I am after. I don’t care about unused lines of wire. I only care the wires are shielded/screened from any electromagnetics as possible.
Am I thinking about this properly?
I would think the CAT6 cable would be selectively wired to a RJ-45 jack. From there with the proper cable you have the short run into the modem.
Whatcha think?
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to ejg1
Cat5e should be more than adequate and is what you mostly see sold in hardware stores. They do have cat6, but I think most contractors use cat5e for POTS wiring now.
I'm guessing you have cat3 in use now. Is it 2 pair or more? I'm wondering if the unused pair(s) might be grounded which could make them act as pretty good antennas for any RFI. They would then couple with the used pair to put that noise in your line.
You would wire your home run to an RJ11 or RJ12 jack. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
1 edit | I don't know what wiring is inside the walls. I am guessing when the house was built at the end of 1999 they selected the cheapest stuff that would work. Most likely that is what is in my wall... the cheapest stuff. I should pull out an existing jack and the wiring behind and look.
I will get an RJ12 jack... |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to ejg1
Any grounding of spare pairs would be done at your NID so examine the inside wiring into it to see there the ends are. You need to do this before you start your home run any way in order to understand your wiring.
RJ45 is for ethernet plugs. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| OK thanks
I just got back from various stores:
Target – Only Belkin CAT5e @ less than $1.00/ft
BestBuy – CAT6 only @ slightly more than $1.00/ft
Lowes – generic brand CAT5 @ $0.30 cents/foot
Central Computers – has tons of CATX in all lengths. CAT5, CAT5E, CAT6 at about $0.20 cents/ft
Problem is NONE of any of the products are shielded. The guy at CCS told me he could get me shielded by special order but there is a 50 ft minimum order. He should be calling me back to verify.
I want to buy a Corning/Seicor SPS-H50-SR1 but I can only find one place that sells them. The kicker is I have to buy a minimum of 5@$125. Got any ideas on where else to get one? |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to ejg1
You will probably have to order your splitter and cable on line:
»www.hometech.com/hts/products/ph···dex.html
Suttle makes a knock off of the Corning Seicor splitter, but I can't find a for sale link. It's much less expensive.
This guy sells shielded cable: »www.cat5ecableguy.com/inc/sdetail/14224 and I've bought it from him. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| I bought a Corning/Seicor SPS-H70-SR1 instead from Hometech.com. at a pricy $73 shipped. (I did not want a knock-off)
The cable was easy although you have to watch the product descriptions like a hawk to be sure what you are getting. Cat6 Shielded 25ft PiMF STP Patch Cable 550MHz – White from iofast.com. $15 shipped
Both should arrive Friday/Saturday. I will start studying the existing wiring in the NID... let you know if I have questions. THANKS!
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to ejg1
Is there any way you can change the order for the patch cable? You really just want bulk cable for a home run as the RJ45 plugs would just have to be cut off. In addition, patch cable has stranded wires and you want solid cable to connect to your NID and splitter. Trying to handle those tiny wire strands on to screw connectors is maddening. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
1 edit | Parts Ordered for Home Run line
OK I fixed the order... canceled.
I found another vendor who is shipping me out 250ft of Bulk CAT6E STP for $89 shipped. I figure since this is fairly hard to find in smaller quantities I can sell the leftovers on Ebay or some other poor guy that wants to do the same thing as I. »www.broadbandutopia.com/bubralcashca1.html
I could have gone a little cheaper with another vendor on CAT6 except money is not an issue. I like buying the best stuff available. One of my character flaws.
You mentioned that I should start studying the existing wiring from my NIB. So here are photos of how the NIB is currently wired.
I see two wires going into the telco side of the NIB. One is a big fat black wire, and the other a skinny grey wire.
Then on my side of the NIB, there are 6 testing modules (room for a seventh) of which only the top one has a bundle of wires going to it. From that bundle, a blue wire connects to the GREEN and a white with blue striped wire goes to the RED terminals. The other wires hang free and are not used. That whole bundle of wires leads up into the attic of the house. So can I assume all the jacks in the house are connected in parallel ???
By the way, the type of wire used is CRM or MPR verified UL CAT3
So… I am not sure how things are going to be wired up. I need to look at those pages you referenced again.
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
1 edit | reply to ejg1
Re: Interesting and major DSL performance problem
Is there room in that inset to mount the Corning Seicor box?
Edit: Also is there a grounding point available to ground the sheilding on the ST wire? Normally the shield is grounded, but in your case that might make it a big RFI antenna so you will have to try it with and wit out grounding. |
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ejg1
join:2004-12-01
Pacifica, CA
| I am thinking the last module space at the bottom is going to be much too small to put the splitter. Since the splitter can be mounted outside the NIB and has its own weather proof box, I thought I would mount it on the same plywood the NIB is mounted on. Both the NIB and splitter are encased and away from the weather anyway by a screw-off door shield on the house.
I don't know what I should be using as a ground point... I would imagine something around the NIB has to be a ground point in case of lightning or something. |
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