degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
·Axvoice
| [General] Backfeeding VoIP Line To whole House Stopped Working
Friday I noticed the house phones stopped working. A bit of testing has shown the cords from the ATA (PAP2) all work with the 2line phone (corded). When plugged into the wall socket I've used for years, that particular line's light on the ata just flashes. Does not matter what cord is used, the light just flashes. If the cord is removed, the LED on the ATA goes to its normal solid state, as if plugged into the 2line phone. The original phone service was Comcast Digital Voice (not the modem driven VOIP one, the original digital voice as inherited from the ATT buy out way back when. All of the jacks in their version of a NID are disconnected. Not sure why this is happening, but can't get this working for the life of me. Anyone got any ideas what is happening here and how to proceed? |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo
| Re: [General] Backfeeding VoIP Line To whole House Stopped Worki
If I remember correctly, when the line is not in use the line light is solid. When in use, the line light flashes. Sounds like to me you have either a bad phone somewhere in the house or a shorted pair causing the pap2 to think someone has lifted a receiver.
How is your wiring setup? Does it loop from jack to jack or is there a cable for each jack going back to a central point? |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH | What he said X2.
First un plug all of your phones in the house (even the ones no body ever uses).
Then connect one phone at a time into your ATA.
Then try connecting the house wiring back to the ATA without any phones connected yet. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR | reply to degauss1
OK. Gonna try these suggestions out. Ropeguru, you are correct, when I pick up a line on the 'working' phone attached directly, the line flashes. Voiplover, that's the methodology I was seeking. Thanks guys. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Axvoice
| 
NID Shot 1 | 
NID Shot 2 |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Did your 'known-good' phone work properly before you saw the problems with your adapter light flashing?
IMO, your best troubleshooting tool in this situation is a standard trimline phone--doesn't require external power, no bells and whistles inside (well, if it's an old trimline, it might have bells.  )...
If you connect all of your lines back the way they were, does your adapter light still flash? If so, try leaving everything connected, and disconnect one phone at a time to see which unit is the culprit... |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo
| reply to degauss1
Inside your NID, is that blue pair the one feeding into the house? If so, everything looks good there.
So you are saying that with no phones connected anywhere in the house and the adapter plugged into the wall, the lights on the adapter look like they should when no one is using the phone. But if you plug in a known good phone into any of the jacks, the phone does not work. Is this correct?? |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Axvoice
1 edit | reply to Fisamo
Known good phone worked just fine before noticing the whole house wiring wasnt working. It was wired into line 2 of the ATA and on a Y with the fax machine into the wall jack. The ATA line 1 is sent to another wall jack. I just reconnected all the phones back to the way it originally all worked and no love, no dial tone. Take the cord from the wall jack, plug it into any of the phones and that phone works. So, all the phones seem to check out good. I can't understand what happened to the wiring. How could it have shorted? The hose is 7years old and we have not had any electrical storms recently, no know mayhem around here. I'm truly stumped how it could just stop working like that. Would try another ATA but this one seems to be doing the job properly, at least both lines work with a phone directly plugged into them. Ropeguru, your summation is correct. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | I am not quite following here for some reason with your setup.
The line 1 and 2 are wired how into you house jacks? Are you using a 2 line adapter and plugging that into your wall outlet to get the 2 lines throughout the house?? |
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unknvoip
WWJID?
join:2006-07-25
Rochester, NY
·ViaTalk
| reply to degauss1
Is your home wiring disconnected from the phone companies wires coming in from the street? Forgive me if this was covered, but I got myself confused 
I posted a recent 'how-to' in the VT forum for a poster with an issue that may have been induced by a surge as he had equipment damaged. I don't know if it helped the OP because he went away and never followed up, but I think it could help you instead. Make sure there is no other devices connected that you forgot about. I once had an answering machine connected to a line that was answering even though the device was turned 'off'. Inside it's silly little analog brain, it thought it should answer the call and made it look like I had a weird issue with VT, when all I had was a personal problem 
Here is the link: »Re: should I go and check my house wiring? |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Axvoice
| reply to ropeguru
Ropeguru, Line 1 is tied into a house jack directly from the ATA. Line 2 is tied directly to the 2-line RCA desktop, wired (vs cordless) phones line 2 input on the back. Then I take a Y cord off of one of the other house jacks and plug the fax machine and line 1 of the 2-line RCA desktop phone into that. The only other phones are 1 cordless in the master bedroom and another cordless in the kitchen. This all worked for a LONG time. Been running it this same way since I originally went to VoIP 6 years ago (sunrocket) except I didn't have a 2 line phone. I've had this phone working this way since Jan when I bought it. I find is puzzling that the other phones just stopped working. Line 1 on the 2-line phone works if I plug it straight in to the ATA, so does the fax and each of the cordless phones. Plug line 1 into the wall jack, no love, just dead air. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Axvoice
| reply to unknvoip
unkvoip, I followed your thread but have double checked ALL jacks in the house. The fax machine is the only one that would strike me as causing something like this. I have done a fair amount of checking as in the previous updates. I don't have a voltage meter but since the phones work plugged in directly, I think it's something in the house wiring. Just not sure how it could have happened or how to track it down and kill it. |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| I'm going to stick my neck out here and put initial 'blame' on your RCA desktop phone, because it is a possible bridge point between the two lines in your home.
If you reconnect everything as it originally was (including the RCA desk phone), do you still see the line light flash? If so, disconnect whatever's connected to Line 1 of the RCA phone. If that does not resolve the problem, reconnect line 1 and disconnect line 2.
Are you using single-pair wires between the wall and your phones, or double-pair wires? If you're feeding your 2-line RCA phone's Line 1 with a 2-pair wire, you could be feeding "Line 2" from two different sources inadvertently. Make sure you only have one pair of wires feeding into each of the RCA phone's inputs, and see if that fixes the issue. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Axvoice
| Fisamo, the phone cords are all single pair cords. Also, I've removed the 2 line phone from the mix altogether at this point and just trying to get ANY of the tested phones to work off a wall jack. No love, dead air all around. I was hoping the pix of the nid revealed something useful but I guess it's all the way it should be there.
So, current results:
1. removed all phones from all wall jacks, plugged in ata to wall jack with a single pair known working phone cord. result - no flashing line 1 (or 2 as I tested both) on the ATA as before.
2. tested each phone and phone cord directly into ata, all phones and cords work
3. reset ATA, plugged in to wall jack,tested each wall jack with multiple phones with a 1pair phone cord, no dial tone anywhere.
Very frustrating situation. Might just say screw it and get a new cordless multi-phone setup from Costco. Would at least give me phones throughout the house again. Still gotta figure out root cause and cure though. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo
| Ok, here is a quick question. Just before you noticed this issue, did you plug in or remove a phone cord from any of the house jacks? I ask because I have had in the past the center two conductors inside the wall jack get crossed together somehow and short the line.Plugging in a cord will sometimes fix the issue and sometimes not. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR | No, but since the phones are all unplugged and the jacks ez to see, will check the pins inside the wall jacks. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | Do you own a multimeter?? Another quick check if you do is to uplug everything fromthe wall jacks, go out to your NID and test across the blue pair that is connected.
You should see an open on the pair and not see it shorted or 0 ohms. |
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unknvoip
WWJID?
join:2006-07-25
Rochester, NY
·ViaTalk
1 edit | And likewise, with just the ATA connected you should see 48v across the pair.
If you don't have a meter, it might cost less than a new phone.
Edit:
Oh, and I just reread the post where you said you don't have a meter. |
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degauss1
join:2001-07-02
Hillsboro, OR | Guess a quick trip to radio shack is in order....
So best bet with a meter is to test across blue at the NID? Should be easy enough. |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
·VOIPo
1 edit | said by degauss1  :Guess a quick trip to radio shack is in order.... So best bet with a meter is to test across blue at the NID? Should be easy enough. Yeah, figured that is the easiest access to the pair you need to test.
If the meter you get has a continuity test on it that beeps when there is a short, that would be the quickest method. Don't buy anything too expensive. |
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