Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
1 edit |  MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin
EDIT: Uploaded more pics with side edge and date stamp info. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin That link shows "in god we trust" on the coin below the bird, his doesn't.... | |
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fourboxers
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Scarborough, ON
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| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin They actually were struck without the motto.
"In God We Trust" Coin Inscription
Although the newly minted $20 Saint-Gaudens coin was ready for circulation in 1907, an important inscription was omitted: "In God We Trust" (hence the name "No Motto"). Although our country's motto had appeared on almost every gold coin minted for the previous 100 years, President Roosevelt felt that the Lord's name should not appear on coins that could be used in transactions in brothels, saloons, and gambling halls, making them "close to sacrilege".
At first, the President's order was followed: none of the 1907 and only a small portion of the rare 1908 $20 St. Gaudens gold coins included the motto. Despite his motivations, the public - and Congress - construed the omission of this motto as an attack on religion. The resulting uprorar quickly led to a Congressional Act restoring the inscription of "In God We Trust" in mid-1908. The motto remained until the government stopped striking gold coins for circulation in 1933. »www.goldline.com/coins/product/s···ens.html | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by fourboxers  :They actually were struck without the motto. "In God We Trust" Coin Inscription
Although the newly minted $20 Saint-Gaudens coin was ready for circulation in 1907, an important inscription was omitted: "In God We Trust" (hence the name "No Motto"). Although our country's motto had appeared on almost every gold coin minted for the previous 100 years, President Roosevelt felt that the Lord's name should not appear on coins that could be used in transactions in brothels, saloons, and gambling halls, making them "close to sacrilege".
At first, the President's order was followed: none of the 1907 and only a small portion of the rare 1908 $20 St. Gaudens gold coins included the motto. Despite his motivations, the public - and Congress - construed the omission of this motto as an attack on religion. The resulting uprorar quickly led to a Congressional Act restoring the inscription of "In God We Trust" in mid-1908. The motto remained until the government stopped striking gold coins for circulation in 1933. » www.goldline.com/coins/product/s···ens.html Thanks for that info!  | |
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AZinOH
join:2007-04-25
Swanton, OH | It doesn't look like any gold coin I've ever seen. Based on that...I'd guess it's a fake, but that's only a guess. Let us know when you find out. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin Read the above link. The reason that it does not look like any Gold coin you have seen before, is because it only contains 90% Gold, 10% Copper as the Wiki Link posted states if it was a real $20 piece.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction! | |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
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join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
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| Can you post the edge?
You can measure it and weigh it, as well.
The $20 Liberty Head gold coin and its successor, the St. Gaudens, are the largest coins produced (1850-1933) by the U.S. Mint for general coinage. Measuring 34 mm in diameter, the coins weigh 33.436 grams each (One ounce contains 31.1 grams), are alloys of 90% gold and 10% copper, and each contains .9675 ounce of gold. Twenty-dollar Liberty gold coins have reeded (milled) edges, but the St. Gaudens have lettered edges.
»www.cmi-gold-silver.com/liberty-···kpZDJb&D
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Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
1 edit | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by SparkChaser :Can you post the edge? You can measure it and weigh it, as well. The $20 Liberty Head gold coin and its successor, the St. Gaudens, are the largest coins produced (1850-1933) by the U.S. Mint for general coinage. Measuring 34 mm in diameter, the coins weigh 33.436 grams each (One ounce contains 31.1 grams), are alloys of 90% gold and 10% copper, and each contains .9675 ounce of gold. Twenty-dollar Liberty gold coins have reeded (milled) edges, but the St. Gaudens have lettered edges.» www.cmi-gold-silver.com/liberty-···kpZDJb&D Thanks to everyone for the helpful advise and interest in this.
I will try again to take a picture of the edge of the coin. It was really hard to take a picture as my camera would not focus right. The seam on the edge of the coin is very noticeable... almost as if two separate coins were pressed together. I will measure and weigh it when I get another chance. I'm pretty sure it's fake... but then again I have no clue about coins nor have I spoken with anyone who has. It really would be surprising if it was real. I'm not too sure what the difference between a reeded and a lettered edge is... but from what I have observed and described about the coin, it looks like a reeded edge. | |
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| | gallowsroad
join:2004-08-09
Tulsa, OK
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin If there really is a seam on the side edge of the coin, it is a fake.
The rim doesn't look right and the coloring on the high spots that show wear is also rather strange.
Were it real, it would potentially be worth a small fortune, depending upon the type for that date.
A proper coin dealer could check it out for you.
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Ha ha haaaaaaa....ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
- John Lydon, last Sex Pistols show | |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI | The easiest way to determine if it's genuine or not is to weigh it. The real deal will weigh about 33.4 grams. A fake will be underweight. | |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
1 edit | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by Jim Gurd :The easiest way to determine if it's genuine or not is to weigh it. The real deal will weigh about 33.4 grams. A fake will be underweight. Ever heard of lead??? Likely just plated, but might have high lead content to make it seem hefty. Forget the density dif between lead and gold but they are close.
No matter what though it is not a legitimate US Mint Coin , and very doubtful it is more than gold plated.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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ujsklfmgjne3
join:2009-07-01
| said by Dustyn :I have this twenty dollar U.S. coin, but I have no idea if it's real or not... I have very little information on it. Someone told me that if the coin has a very obvious seam all around the edges, it's fake? This one has a seam... but weren't coins made like this many many years ago? I'd have to take a trip to Toronto or Barrie to find an expert in coins to verify. I know my lousy pictures don't really do much justice. spend it and find out | |
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M A R K
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
clubs: | Fake | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
 ·Bay Area Internet ..
| Looks like it might be a fake.
»www.coinfacts.com/double_eagles/···dens.htm
•It may be your photo, but if the coin is as discolored as it appears, it is not gold. A gold coin will not discolor. It will wear from handling, but it will still be bright gold.
•The rays on the reverse appear to be a give-away. In the link, the ray that passes behind the head of the eagle touches the rim. Your does not.
•The first, third and fifth rays are very subdued in the link. Yours are not.
If it is real and in collectible condition it could be worth around $1400. If the wear is as heavy as it appears, it is probable worth about melt value.
The St. Gaudens gold coins are some of most valuable and desirable gold coins there are. Good chance it is fake. | |
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tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
 ·Millenicom
 ·WildBlue
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by More Fiber :Looks like it might be a fake. » www.coinfacts.com/double_eagles/···dens.htm•It may be your photo, but if the coin is as discolored as it appears, it is not gold. A gold coin will not discolor. It will wear from handling, but it will still be bright gold. Yeah, from that picture it looks like the gold coloring has worn off in spots. Certainly a fake if it's not uniformly gold.
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RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | Looks like a electroplated fake. if its got a seam, its not even a good fake.
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Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin Electroplated fake?
Can you elaborate any on what that means?
I don't disagree with you or others here that it's probably a fake. I had once cleaned it when I first found it many many years ago and it turned out incredibly shiny and very gold "looking". The discoloration happened after as a result of things like coke and other items being spilled onto it carelessly throughout the years. It was never considered to be genuine (as per the mishandling of it) but it has also never been checked out. I'm sure I could clean it up again to what it once closely looked like before the discoloration, but I don't want to risk a second cleaning myself as I've heard there is the possibility of damage. | |
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| | gallowsroad
join:2004-08-09
Tulsa, OK
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin That means it is made of something entirely other than gold, and an electroplating of gold was then applied to it, essentially a thin veneer, if you will.
You seem somewhat uncertain as to whether you really believe it to be fake or not. As I said earlier, a coin dealer, if you have one in your area, could tell you. The St. Gaudens $20 gold coins of certain date/mint marks were widely faked because some of them became enormously valuable.
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Ha ha haaaaaaa....ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
- John Lydon, last Sex Pistols show | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | NEVER CLEAN A COIN!
Any numismatist will tell you such, and if you told them you cleaned it then it's now worth -0-. | |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
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| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by fcisler :NEVER CLEAN A COIN! Any numismatist will tell you such, and if you told them you cleaned it then it's now worth -0-. A fake is worth zero regardless.
If it were real, it still wouldn't drop below gold value, cleaned or otherwise. | |
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| | | | bombadill
Honest it just fell apart in my hands
Premium
join:2008-11-10
australia
·Internode
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin joetaxpayer; I wouldn't 100% guarantee that fakes are worthless.
For example the first Nigerian Scam letters a few years ago had badly printed fake stamps on them. They are now collectible if still on the original envelope.
Likewise I'm sure there are fake coins that are collectors items.
Quote from a fake coin web site "Ironically, there is actually a market for fake coins and some people will collect known fakes for the fun, prestige, and possible increase in valuation. These coins are famous fakes if you will." | |
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tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
·Millenicom
·WildBlue
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by bombadill :joetaxpayer; I wouldn't 100% guarantee that fakes are worthless. For example the first Nigerian Scam letters a few years ago had badly printed fake stamps on them. They are now collectible if still on the original envelope. Likewise I'm sure there are fake coins that are collectors items. Quote from a fake coin web site "Ironically, there is actually a market for fake coins and some people will collect known fakes for the fun, prestige, and possible increase in valuation. These coins are famous fakes if you will." Yes, some ancient Roman counterfeit coins are worthwhile collecting. »esty.ancients.info/imit/
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howie
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-08
Little Falls, NJ
1 edit | As already stated, gold coins do not tarnish. The above exqample obviously has some "gold" rubbed off with a silver color underneath. 100% fake, IMO. | |
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| quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin As opposed to 96.5% fake? | |
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howie
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-08
Little Falls, NJ
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin LOL!
Here is an 1899 gold Russian coin I have (not a great pic). Even after 110 years, there's no "tarnish". | |
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| NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by Gbcue :I think it's fake. ... It doesn't even say "IN GOD WE TRUST". You posted that an hour and a quarter after another post explained why TR ordered these coins struck without that motto. While your other points (tarnish, seam) suggest a badly done counterfeit, the missing motto is not a part of that equation.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Warzau
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Naperville, IL
clubs: | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin LOL it takes you a hour or so to compose a 4 line response. | |
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Tirael
join:2009-03-18
Savannah, GA
1 edit | It is possible it is real. Try a local coin dealer to be certain.
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? - Scott Adams | |
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M A R K
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
clubs: | Lets just say this one more time, FAKE!
I have seen many coins in my day, you can just look at it and instantly know its not gold and its fake. And if it was cleaned its worthless.
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See you in Villains | |
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stev32k
Premium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL | It seems to be a poorly made counterfeit. Gold coins do not turn silver looking unless the electroplate wears off. I've asked others that are real experts in this series to take a look and we'll wait for their response. | |
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57721182
Premium
join:2009-05-10 | Why don't you just try using it at a store? | |
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M A R K
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
clubs:
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by 57721182 :Why don't you just try using it at a store? Seems like he lives in Ontario, so they will spit in his face twice, once for the fake coin and second for trying use USD
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See you in Villains | |
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57721182
Premium
join:2009-05-10 | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin it was a joke  | |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
| MCMVII:= 1997..... there has not been legal gold currency since the very early 1900's. This is a "commeritave" type coin, not US mint legal tender.
Therefore it value is very variable.... beyond the actual metal value.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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M A R K
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
clubs:
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by Hayward :MCMVII:= 1997.... M=1000
CM = 100 before 1000 (900)
VII = 7
1907
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1997 would be MCMXCVII
M=1000
CM=900
XC= 10 before 100 (90)
VII=7
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See you in Villains | |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
2 edits | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin OOPS.... well then MIGHT be real... that was about when we quit the gold standard.....
Gave up silver in 1964, now we are just on smoke and mirros standad 
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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M A R K
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
clubs:
| Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin said by Hayward :OOPS.... well then MIGHT be real... that was about when we quit the gold standard..... Gave up silver in 1964, now we are just on smoke and mirros standad Lol, no its still fake.. and not just the coin.. !
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See you in Villains | |
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pcernech
join:2009-06-29
Independence, MO | Late to the party, but I have one of those (real) and that is a fake by my estimation. | |
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Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
| If you guys need more photos or info on it, let me know.
I'm in the process of gathering more info on the coin when it's available to me. You guys have provided me with a lot of information thus far. I will measure, weigh it and post back. I will get in contact with a coin dealer as well even though I'm now certain it's a fake! I'm delightfully surprised by all the interest in this thread however. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments on this. | |
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| llancer2004
join:2009-08-29
Escondido, CA | Re: MCMVII: Liberty 20 Dollar Coin I think I have that same coin. If you find out anything useful let me know. I'm pretty sure its fake. | |
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