Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| reply to Matt
Re: Why is IE8 the absolute worst at the acid3 browser test?
said by Matt  :Amen. I yearn for the days when MS went at it alone and developed their own standards. I wish Mozilla has the cahones to do that and then open source their work. »New Firefox standard combats Cross-Site Scripting
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? |
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severach
join:2002-09-12
Jackson, MI
| reply to cmcasey79
said by cmcasey79 :If i took my car to a mechanic because it wasn't running right, and he gave me a different car back, i wouldn't be very impressed. So if you're 72 Plymouth Duster wasn't running right and they gave you next year's Porsche you'd complain?
I know I shouldn't insult 72 Plymouth Dusters like that! |
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cmcasey79
join:2000-12-10
Farmington, MI
 ·Bright House
| Yep, if i wanted a new car, i woudl have gone to a new car dealership! People can like whatever browser they want, but to just sue that as a solution to a problem with IE doesnt make sense to me. Something in the system is more that likely still not right, so its more like me taking my car into the show because the radio si broken, and the shop just adding an external radio and telling me to use that instead of the broken one in the dash.
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- ccasey79, BrightHouse Business Class (7000/500), Farmignton Hills, MI |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| reply to cypherstream
Here's how the IPhone renders the test...
Not perfect, but still better than IE8, and way better than IE7. |
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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
| reply to cmcasey79
said by cmcasey79 :I've read MS team blogs saying IE8,5 or IE9 (whatever they call it) will focus more on new "standards", so hopefully it will score better. When you have a huge majority of marketshare though, you kind of become the "standard" that people have to code for i guess. I've read exactly the same stories about prospective IE7 before it was released, then about IE8, and now about IE9... I guess I know what is going to happen - nothing. They simply don't care.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
|  reply to Matt
said by Matt :Amen. I yearn for the days when MS went at it alone and developed their own standards. I wish Mozilla has the cahones to do that and then open source their work. The web exploded and all sorts of new neat things were developed. What have we gotten since MS was smacked by the regulatory agencies? A crappier JVM, Flash everything, and a horribly slow Javascript implementation. All in the name of "standards." I wish someone would take the ball and run with it, standards be damned. I'll add an Amen to that, very well said.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM |
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XBL2009
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join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | reply to cypherstream
The big question is how does this actually affect the average user from day to day?
Probably not much. |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| said by XBL2009 :The big question is how does this actually affect the average user from day to day? Probably not much. You mean, absolutely none?!!
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The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| I hadn't done the test in ages so I did it on all browsers on my host XP Pro machine and on my virtual XP Pro machine. If I was to think the test was important to my enjoyment of the net via different browsers then I would have to be using Safari4 for Windows. It is the only browser I have that scored 100% instantly...no animation which is a bit suspect. Firefox 3 scored 69 slightly better than Fx 1.5 at 52. Opera 10 scored 96. IE6 scored 12 and IE8 (using compatibility view which I have to use for all sites otherwise IE crashes constantly) scored a whopping 6!!!! It scores one-half of what IE6 scores. That is dismal, but as for the scores on the other browsers I don't think it matters much because all the browsers except IE7 and 8 are fine when I am surfing so I don't think the test means much for the average user.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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SvS
join:2001-04-15
Germany
| reply to cypherstream
said by cypherstream :No, it's even worse! You'll have to turn of InPrivate-Browsing and allow the MSXML3 Addon to be executed to achieve the 20/100 result.
I don't know what this discussion is about, even the wikipedia article outlines what the goal of the Acid3 test is. Some people here disable the features tested even when using a "compliant" browser. |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Freddy
said by Freddy :When you score 20 of 100 in an IQ test, what does that tell you about yourself? In my view, it likely, tells you little to nothing. Aww, did someone tell you the IQ test only goes to 100 to make you feel better? |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to SvS
said by SvS :said by cypherstream :No, it's even worse! You'll have to turn of InPrivate-Browsing and allow the MSXML3 Addon to be executed to achieve the 20/100 result. I don't know what this discussion is about, even the wikipedia article outlines what the goal of the Acid3 test is. Some people here disable the features tested even when using a "compliant" browser. I allowed the addon in IE8 but still it only scored 6. You are right though that the authors of the test state that the browser must be in its default state when tested. Whose browser is in the "default" state unless just downloaded and installed? So, the test is meaningless...just a little fun.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to cypherstream
Who cares?
It's IE that everyone HAS to keep around to use at certain sites anyway.
Other than that,
It's NOTHING but personal preference on your choice of browsers.
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The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ |
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Leathal
Premium
join:2002-02-09
Toronto, ON
| reply to cypherstream
I refuse to upgrade my machines, and my client machines to IE8 as it breaks a lot websites including ones written in Java, sure you can run it in compatibility mode but it doesn't make sense to do that vs keeping IE7 installed  )
Leathal |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to Cabal
Again, this doesn't significantly advance the web in any sort of interactive way and as noted by the first response in that thread, is already offered by other extensions. I'm not saying developing this is a bad thing, but it doesn't advance the state of the web.
The new 3.5 feature that seamlessly integrates video and audio is more akin to what I'm referring to, but again they are trying to reinvent the wheel. We have other things that do that already like Flash that are in widespread use, yet they waste time reinventing it with Ogg Vorbis and Theora support. Really? Ogg Vorbis guys? Theora? I actually had to Google that last one as I've never even heard of it. Why not one of the myriad of ubiquitous open codecs out there? They picked two of the most obscure formats out there, almost as if on purpose.
I can understand that they want to focus on making the BROWSER better, but they aren't doing anything to make the WEB better. Deride Microsoft all you want, but they have done more to advance the state of the web than (arguably) anyone else to date. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to brandon
said by brandon :said by Freddy :When you score 20 of 100 in an IQ test, what does that tell you about yourself? In my view, it likely, tells you little to nothing. Aww, did someone tell you the IQ test only goes to 100 to make you feel better? Wait, wait ... it goes to 100? Damn it. |
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ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | reply to cypherstream
I can't even remember the last time I used IE ..I think it was back when it was IE 6, but only because it opened itself up for me to check my Hotmail through MSN Messenger. |
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UnnDunn
Premium
join:2005-12-21
Brooklyn, NY
·Optimum Online
1 edit | reply to cypherstream
The Acid tests are largely symbolic tests used to bully Microsoft into supporting what "they" feel are the "standards" Microsoft should be supporting.
Unfortunately for "them", Microsoft actually conducts its own research into how real people use IE and what they want from it, and Microsoft builds IE based on that, not what a handful of Microsoft-haters think.
Don't get me wrong, I make websites for a living so I, too, bemoan IE6's broken CSS support, and I, too, want Microsoft to support all the latest whiz-bang standards and concepts, including Acid3. But as the song says, "you can't always get what you want."
In my view, IE8 is the best day-to-day browser there is. It is the only browser that is at once fast, mature, robust, stable, secure and compatible with nearly everything on the web today. It doesn't excel at any one thing, but it does everything well enough. Every other browser focuses on one or two things at the expense of everything else; Chrome and Safari are fast but immature, Firefox is highly customizable but gets slow and bloated, and Opera is just weird.
If you want me to switch to another browser for day-to-day usage, show me one that hits all the marks. For a while, when IE was horrible, Firefox was that browser. Now IE8 is good enough that Firefox is no longer needed. |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to Matt
I'm not sure what you mean by "The web exploded all sorts of neat things were developed" Matt, but I must take issue with that.
For the most part, IE has always been behind the times and full of problems. Just because ActiveX does one thing or another doesn't make it special.
Most people still used Netscape until it got so bad that they HAD to use IE 5(5.5 to be more precise, then version 6) - Until that point Netscape could still do all sorts of things just as well as IE - video, Java, etc.
Not to burst your bubble, but the biggest thing IE ever did (esp. w/ActiveX) was open up a world of malware due to it being tied so closely to the OS.
Nobody believed it would ever happen, but look where we are today - TONS AND TONS of exploits out there, mainly possible due to web browsers, and IE VERY much in particular, though also through Firefox, but MUCH less so with NoScript.
The fact that Firefox was based on the GOOD parts of Netscape is what made it/makes it popular - people remember when Netscape didn't totally suck, and kind of wish something like it existed - some bright folks did just that - and now we have Firefox (which I've been a fan of since version 0.8). It's not meant to be anything particularly "new" as much as something that does what people expect.
Chrome is neat in that they've compartmentalized some things and innovated on a few other ideas. Aside from privacy issues, I think it's a rather neat browser overall.
IE still has proprietary rendering, is tied directly to the guts of its host OS, and as evidenced by this somewhat biased test, still can't figure out how to handle well documented, open standards that other browsers are pretty capable of handling.
As for how they've made the web better, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts...
I always thought the web got better when Apache came along, then Firefox came along, and now we have more open standards than ever, more open source software and developers (developers developers developers as Balmer once opined about;) ) and less proprietary, closed source, freedom inhibiting, DRM based crap...
Maybe some would rather have more restrictions and hidden code, I prefer freedom 
Glad IE is trying to catch up, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see how MS has made the internet all that much better...
One can claim IE is "mature" but that's misleading - it's only starting to grow up as it tries desperately to do things more correctly (standards). One can call it fast, which is partially true, but also misleading as it's directly tied into its host OS to this very day. One can call it robust, and I find that funny because it seems like it's still catching up to how well other browsers can use add-ons.
As for this "acid test" ...Who knows... All I know is that I'm glad IE is catching up to the real world, doesn't suck quite as bad as it used to, and that we have some good competition and choices. As for internet innovation, I still hold the opinion that the open source/gnu people have done quite a bit more than some would like to give them credit for. |
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UnnDunn
Premium
join:2005-12-21
Brooklyn, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by amungus :IE still has proprietary rendering, is tied directly to the guts of its host OS, and as evidenced by this somewhat biased test, still can't figure out how to handle well documented, open standards that other browsers are pretty capable of handling. Actually, beginning with IE 7, IE has largely been decoupled from Windows. About the only thing they share is the Trident rendering engine. With Windows 7, you can remove (not just hide) Internet Explorer completely by unchecking a box. |
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