Cliffy
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Kitchener, ON
clubs:
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers »news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10274730-1.html
"Seven online merchants operating more than 40 Web sites have agreed to pay a $765,000 settlement following an investigation by the New York State Attorney General's office, the AG's office said.
I think a few people are going to start making claims on this one. CNET links to another article that has more information on what companies are involved.
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
4 edits | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers And guess what you know how many/much????? Maybe $1-5 check two yeaqrs down the road.
B&H are the one of few (and only I choose to name) I would really trust any were in greater NYC area.... maybe a bit more expensive.... but you get what you pay for AND ACTUALY get it.... plus very liberal return, both new and used.... done both. For instance a used filter front perfect... maybe they didn't looked at the back in proper light, never tried to say I did it just refunded and they took it back.
Now I was an existing not fiirst time customer may have had a little to do with that... but seems in their nature or doing business.
One of few that understands long before (even shopped there in person fom CT long ago) the now how viral the web could be in bad vobes in very short order. And again one of the few NYC cam places not just out to rip all possible off.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Stacy
FotoDogue
Premium
join:2001-11-02
New York, NY
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·Speakeasy
| Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers As someone who uses the brick & mortar retail stores, I'd say Adorama and B&H are equally good. I happen to live closer to Adorama, and I prefer the smaller store and slightly more personal touch, but if Adorama doesn't have what I need I won't hesitate to go to B&H, or vice versa.
I've also been happy with 17th Street Photo which has comparable prices and good walk in service.. but I have no experience with their mail order department. | |
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Mokmo
join:2005-02-03
Saint-Georges, QC | You said conveyor belt... idon't know many places that have those, but i'm notfrom around NY either... | |
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Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ | years ago B&H was notorious for grey market shenanigens - after a few media busts they cleaned up their act. | |
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Stacy
FotoDogue
Premium
join:2001-11-02
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·Speakeasy
1 edit | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers said by Pentaxian  :years ago B&H was notorious for grey market shenanigens - after a few media busts they cleaned up their act. Pentaxian
Sorry I'm not familiar with these "grey market shenanigens" and I've been shopping at B&H since it was a small store near City Hall. Yes they do carry USA Warranty and Grey Market but in my experience they've always been quite clear about the difference.
I also remember a time where there were more camera stores in New York than you could count and most of these stores wouldn't even allow you to even see the item until after you had paid for it. Many of these stores were notorious for removing items and accessories normally supplied by the manufacturer and then selling them as "must purchase accessories" to jack up the price. B&H was always one of the good guys who actually delivered on the advertised price - no strings attached.
B&H (and Adorama) were also two of the few discount New York camera stores that would allow customers to handle equipment before they purchased it. The fact that they now have showrooms with prices attached is light years ahead of the type of photo supply shops we had back in the 80s.
I'm not saying there may have been some instances where grey market may have been substituted for USA Warranty, or customers may have been confused by the two (you'd be amazed to see how little some shoppers know about photography) but this kind of practice, at least in my experience, certainly is not the norm at B&H. | |
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| Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ
| quote:
said by Stacy :
Yes they do carry USA Warranty and Grey Market but in my experience they've always been quite clear about the difference.
They were busted for false advertising and bait and switch techniques. B&H used to run large ads in newspapers with pricing in which they would advertise a camera at a great price with no mention of grey market - an unsuspecting customer would buy the product and NEVER be the wiser until there was a problem. Of course the consumer was screwed because B&H had yanked the warranty card from the merchandise.. It was no good in the US anyway..
Now don't get upset with me because you like B&H  - I use them almost exclusively and I like their prices and have never been screwed by them. But there was a day when not everyone could say that.. | |
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Stacy
FotoDogue
Premium
join:2001-11-02
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·Speakeasy
| Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers said by Pentaxian :They were busted for false advertising and bait and switch techniques. B&H used to run large ads in newspapers with pricing in which they would advertise a camera at a great price with no mention of grey market - an unsuspecting customer would buy the product and NEVER be the wiser until there was a problem. Of course the consumer was screwed because B&H had yanked the warranty card from the merchandise.. It was no good in the US anyway.. Got a link? I remember plenty of photo supply houses that operated this way, often running large ads in the Sunday papers, but not B&H. In fact, B&H is one of the few photo supply houses that publishes and widely distributes a catalog with current prices. | |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by Pentaxian :years ago B&H was notorious for grey market shenanigens - after a few media busts they cleaned up their act. Have some links to back that up with?
I have heard these rumors before but no one can never seem to find or post any real proof of them actually having happened.
For what it is worth I have purchased enough from B&H to buy Miami twice over and never had a single problem or misrepresentation of an items listing or origin.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers Contrary to popular belief, everything that ever was is
not necessarily on the Internet. | |
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handling
@tmodns.net
| not forgetting, the year the photo magazines got ethical, and enforced their rules about deceptive advertising,
especially the rule about stating packing and handling and service fees specifically and separately, in addition to shipping charges.
what year was that, when modern photography and popular photography got ~50% thinner? as the unethical dealers' ads were refused? | |
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Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ
1 edit | Well, it seems they are up to their old tricks...
»photo.net/neighbor/view-one-abou···to+Video
Be sure to scroll the list and read the titles carefully.. Billing and not shipping - Grey market no US scams - etc, etc..
Oh, and I forgot one real doosy of a policy they have.. If you fill out your warranty card (assuming it's a good US one) and you either send it in to the manufacturer, or, you still have it with your information on it, you may NOT return your camera to B&H.. And you can forget it if you simply lost the warranty card.. Most places don't even check to see if the warranty card is there because they'll simply send it back to the MFG and give YOU a new one. Not B&H though. If you send in a defective unit for replacement, they put your crap unit back on the shelf to sell to another poor soul - that's why they need a clean and unaltered warranty card, so the next sucker gets it!! Think I'm full of it? Pentax users watched as returned lenses bounced around from owner to owner who thought they were buying new from B&H.. They were just buying defective lenses that B&H resold.. But I love B&H.. | |
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Stacy
FotoDogue
Premium
join:2001-11-02
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·Speakeasy
| Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers Wow. Somehow when you said "They were busted for false advertising and bait and switch techniques" I was expecting something along the lines of a link to a news story, maybe saying they'd been fined by the NYC Department of Consumers Affairs, or something to that effect. I was not expecting a link to another forum where some users state they had negative experiences and Henry Posner tries to rectify. After all this is a fairly serious accusation to levy against a reputable business.
B&H does an incredible amount of business and has an extensive online catalog that must need regular updating and corrections. If only 1% of their transactions have a problem that's an awful lot of angry customers. I don't find it the least bit surprising that someone would be unhappy. And I'd imagine Henry Posner works overtime doing online customer service and support.
But what I don't understand is, if you really believe they're deliberately involved in some kind of bait and switch or other scams then why would you continue to shop there? | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers There is something out there, but I'll be damned if I can find it now myself. If I remember, it was little more than a local news channels consumer reporter giving them crap, and it was a rather long time ago. All in all, they are a decent place to deal with, the number of satisfied customers shows that. But they aren't perfect, and haven't always been angels. | |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
1 edit | said by Stacy :But what I don't understand is, if you really believe they're deliberately involved in some kind of bait and switch or other scams then why would you continue to shop there? Possible bad experience, not dealt with in a timely way. I have not have had any problem even returning USED stuff to B&H with no problem.... again about the only reputable NYC dealer.... HUNDREDS of FAR WORSE, the AG is after
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | said by Stacy :If only 1% of their transactions have a problem that's an awful lot of angry customers. That would work out to about 40 upset customers per day and that's clearly not happening.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician | |
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Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
| And just to restate the ONLY NYC metro seller I would trust is B&H.
They actually do honest business even if they are closed on Sat like all the others.... draw your own conclusions.... but honest ones.
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Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ
1 edit | As I said, this happened about 15 years ago and it's not rumors. I suggested that if you really think I would go so far as to make this crap up (for what benefit I ask) then contact channel 2,4,5,7,9,11 in the NY/NJ area and ask to speak to someone in their archives department and see if they can pull it for you. It's totally true and it totally happened over a long period of time. So much so and for so long that people finally started complaining and they eventually got busted for it.
And they STILL do these things today as evidence of that I pointed you to the link at photo.net of thousands of people's experiences with them. There are a lot of good ones, but plenty of bad as well..
So, why would I continue to shop there knowing this? Because I'm not the 'unsuspecting consumer' - I can deal with the theives and crooks. | |
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Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ
1 edit | Also - I have engaged Henry in the past about this when he tried to stand up for B&H.. As soon as I mentioned this, he went away..
For those of you who think B&H is the greatest place ever, go have a look at the link below.. Maybe that will give you some indication of the type of people you're buying from.. k?
»www.google.com/search?source=ig&···aq=f&oq= | |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers said by Pentaxian : They were busted for false advertising and bait and switch techniques. And again, can you find something, anything what so ever be it a newspaper article, wire story, video etc to back up that statement? You mentioned it was media that exposed the fraud, therefore somewhere that information is archived and it would do you well to find it and post it here.
Maybe it's just me, but before I would go on-line and post something that egregious about a well known retailer I would have something to back up my statement with.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers Just curious, can you find a link to every piece of news you've come across in your life? I know I can't, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: New York AG after Brooklyn Scammers I don't doubt you one bit. But I've also seen Henry shut right up at the mention of this, so it does make me wonder. Still, I have no problems recommending or using B&H.
On a side note, this »finance.unc.edu/news/news/nc-deb···deo.html turned up in one of my searches. Anbody have any ideas on exactly what it's about? | |
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Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
·T-Mobile US
| said by Jodokast96 :Just curious, can you find a link to every piece of news you've come across in your life? I know I can't, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. If it’s local to my area give me 24 to 48 hours and I could probably do it as our two local papers the Sentinel and the Herald have searchable on-line archives going back about 12 years and microfiche for 30 + before that.
While I might not be able to provide a link I would be able to post a scan of the story and in this case that’s really all I was asking for, however instead all I have seen are links to Internet rants (some totally unrelated) or anecdotal “it happened to me” evidence.
Anyone can post anything they want on the Internet but backing it up when challenged becomes a totally different world hence the reason I will not post something without being able to do so.
Wayne
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If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician | |
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Gemologist
Premium
join:2001-11-15
USA
clubs:
| There are threads all over forums like photo.net and dpreview of people who have purchased usa lenses only to receive gray market imports. I know of 4 of these events personally, as happened to friends. Sigma, on the one incident, even confirmed to the purchaser that the lenses were indeed imported and not USA versions. Done on purpose? Just lack of QC? Lazy/sneaky employees? No clue, but it seems to happen frequently, and it is a well documented issue on plenty of forums by many different people.
Also lots of other things, example, selling studio lights as being user replaceable tubes when they are not, quite a few got burned on those, gotta love disposable studio strobes, lol. We got burned on those as wanted a set of cheap portables. By time we realized this was the case it was too late to return them as it was almost a year later. Could have filed legal issues I guess, but would have cost more then they were worth, lol. But we won't be burned again by them, that is for sure.
While plenty of folks have luck with them, there are far too many issues for me to bother with them, especially when better service and cheaper prices can be had elsewhere. In my own personal experiences, they have been less then honest and have shafted us more times then not in one way or another. 
I personally stick with Adorama, far better customer service hands down! Truly cares about their clients and will bend over backwards to help them out as well! Including having actual Manufacturer reps calling said clients to answer tech questions that they couldn't. No questions asked returns, prompt refunds, etc.
As for Henry, he is well known for going around forum to forum slandering upset customers, huge thread on the Pentax forums(or at least was.. Got locked.. May or may not still be there) with him calling customers names and everything, real nice guy, rofl. Not my kind of place and why I stay clear of them.
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